Ser Gwayne Hightower

Couple of those, like of, of Aemond and Rhaenyra on the throne.

You know who's the man? My boy Gwayne.

He's just cool.

Who was that?

Psych.

[laughs] You really had to throw in that psych.

Hey, that boy, your mommy wants you dead.

Yeah, no, it's fucked up, dude.

But I, I do think the f- I, I kind of agree he was a little cartoonish at times with, you know, his peculiarities and all that.

Um, but it does set up Gwayne and Daeron really well, and I like those characters a lot.

Mm-hmm.

And if, if you were kind of thinking, oh, Ormund is the great green hope, I think there's actually something in Gwayne and, and-

Yeah

... and maybe even potentially Daeron, although he's compromised because he's a potential heir.

he styles himself a king.

That's not, that's not gonna go well for him, I don't imagine.

Probably.

Yeah, I mean, there are definitely questions about the Hightowers succession because Orm- uh, Gwayne talks about how he's next in line.

But, like, Ormund has a bunch of kids in the books.

So it's like, is Ormund married? Does he have kids? That, that will have to be a topic of discussion in season f-

Yeah, some stuff that kind of y- you know, bleeds over into the last two episodes of the season with Alicent sort of giving the big suggestion that, uh, [laughs] d- uh, lands her and her daughter in pretty hot water, um, to, to say it mildly.

But, like, she basically does what Gwayne does in the final two episodes of the season, which is to say, "Hey, why don't we split up the kingdom? We can just, like, marry our kids together and all that, and it'll be fine." Uh, Rhaenyra doesn't like that and banishes them.

Potentially, if you believe what Mushroom says, banishes them to a whorehouse where they will be, um, auctioned off nightly until they are both pregnant.

That, that is one of the most fucked up things I've read in these books, um-

... you know, waiting.

The waiting's the hardest part.

[laughs] Um, also I thought there's, you know, the, like another thi- thing that I got is like I think you can't understand what's going on with Daemon and the Gold Cloaks without understanding Criston Cole's conversation with Gwayne where it's like Daemon is the high lord where this is not...

N- I don't think he would describe it as a game, but it's like incredibly personal to him.

[laughs]

... gave that to Gwayne instead.

So they have to come up with some drama, and building it around her relationship with Rhaenyra is the natural, uh, decision given how they've centralized that relationship in the show so far.

And with Aegon, you know, as, as, as much as I might like more mystery, as we'll talk about in a minute here, it's, it's difficult to pull off what Fire & Blood pulled off so well, uh, where you have Aegon just vanish after he disappears from King's Landing, and have people wonder what he's up to and get up to other dramas of their own.

You mentioned Ormund as a great o- one-off villain, and he was great on his own terms, but he was also, had really strong relationships.

You got a s- such a good sense of his emotional history with Daeron, a combination of, of love and abuse that has kinda left that kid confused and with nowhere else to turn.

With Gwayne, you get a s- you get s- when Gwayne shows up there, you really feel kind of his, his love and his worry for Daeron and his contempt but kind of begrudging acceptance of Ormund.

All that stuff comes through really strongly for secondary characters.

Like, you're super cool with it."

Yeah, Gwayne.

"I'm outta here."

Alicent's-

Yeah, Gwayne's, like-

... brother, I believe.

Yeah, that's her brother.

Yes