What led to that?

Yeah.

Um, at Northern Seminary, I had a master's, uh, I directed a masters in New Testament.

And I was very lenient [chuckles] with students, you know, of what they wanted to study, and I always said, "I want you to write as if this is gonna be a readable book rather than don't write as if you're writing an academic journal article." So we worked on writing skills so we could communicate to the church.

And I had some wonderful theses, a lot of them, but one, uh, thesis really stood out to me.

Uh, it was by Adrian Gibson, who's a trauma therapist and had gone to Denver Seminary, and I'm not sure what degree she got.

But she's been a trauma therapist for about 20 years in Phoenix, and she wrote a thesis on trauma in the New Testament, mostly about trauma and what it is.

So talk to us about some things that we as congregants can do to inflict less trauma [laughs] on our leaders.

Yeah, exactly.

You seem like...

I've seen you go through three... difficult pregnancies all with their own difficulties and battle through that i've seen the mom that you've become i've seen you battle through postpartum i've seen you struggle with community and wanting to move and then that not going our way and then landing and kind of like you know just your ability to stand up after getting knocked down and those are attractive when you're talking about someone you're going to commit your life to, because that's kind of what it's about.

It's about all the great times, but then when things like marriage, when things aren't as great, do you bail? Do you run? Or do you kind of like, you know, forge together and rise together? And so we've done that and we've seen that.

Like you've had those blue shorts for years.

Well, what I normally do when I wake up is I open my drawer.

I find the most accessible first thing on top of that drawer.

I pick that up.

It's a good point.

A significant number of Jews, Galileans, Judeans are living at the subsistence level which means any kind of disruption in weather, in economics, in a bad economic decision, and you have people who are really upset.

You have disruption.

Okay.

Jesus promises economic justice.

And he didn't say this because he was the first.

Jesus is connected to John the Baptist, and John the Baptist has an economic vision that makes a Democrat think that they're conservative.

What reframe happens for us, for the Pharisees? Who are they that we don't just call people out as pharisaical and heretical? Okay.

[laughs]

... a lot more than I did, so I know.

Um, Scot McKnight.

I am a visiting professor at Houston Theological Seminary, Houston Christian University.

And, um, two of my favorite books, I always tell people my, my-

Hmm.

And then he promises, and I don't know how m- how Mike clarified Mark 9:1, but I know he hadn't read Martin Kunze's German monograph on the history of interpretation when Bob Yarbrough told him so.

But, um, that, that passage on the transfiguration, I think is an anticipation-