Sara Wickham

There's lots of good books.

Like I have... a fairly large book collection for clients, you know, things like Hazel Ketel's VBAC book, Sarah Wickham's Vitamin K book.

There's gone from my brain but there are

so many really good books that just talk about

If I open my pelvis this way, or if I move, or if I rest and I sleep.

You know, intuitively, without being observed and expected to follow, an exterior... expectation or pattern you know and that's like god that is so is so important it's so and like you said about we can't so we can't get research on it it's interesting actually that sarah wickham uh posted about this and she's got her blog post a new one about gathering together the evidence around free birth Because I think that's what I've always said is this could be where we can pick up and understand what undisturbed physiological birth.

If we got lots of data on it, that's the only way.

And like she says, we haven't got the data.