If something does go wrong this year, what would it be, Sam? What could possibly go wrong for OKC this year?

Well, what's crazy, Kevin, is that we saw, like when Jalen Williams was out for most of the year, you would think that would be, like if that happened again, that would be disastrous.

They showed that they can withstand something like that.

So I will pick, it's the middle class of this group.

It's the role players that they lost and the question of, you know, with Lou Dorton, Isaiah Joe and those guys being gone, it's Ken, AJ Mitchell, Kaysen Wallace, you know, and those guys actually step up because as we know, as amazing players, as sga is and j-dub and chet you know even playoff struggles notwithstanding it's it's the depth of this team that has made it dominant and dangerous and that did take a bit of a hit in the summer now granted there's levels to this right like they can take a hit with depth and still have far more of it than the vast majority of the nba and if you wanted to spin a positive As you know, I mean, AJ in particular had stretches last year where he looked like a guy that they could average 20 in this league.

And so does this open opportunity for him? Narrative-wise, which is not the type of stuff that the Thunder pay attention to, but I do think, you know, to see Sam Presti you know, conduct a public interview after some of these choices were made and, and seemingly, you know, highlight the financial motivations of the roster moves.

I thought it was one that it's like worth monitoring in terms of just how's the energy in the building.

If that carries over, couldn't this team be the one that ends up actually taking a step forward after winning the NBA Finals instead of a step back?

With Oklahoma City, if something does go wrong this year, what would it be, Sam? What, what could possibly go wrong for OKC this year?

Well, what's crazy, Kevin, is that we saw, like, when Jaylen Williams was out for most of the year, you would think that would be ...

Like, if that happened again, that would be disastrous.

They showed that they can withstand something like that.

So I will pick f- It's the middle class of this group.

It's the role players that they lost and the question of, you know, with Lou Dort and Isaiah Joe and those guys being gone, it's, it's can AJ Mitchell, Cason Wallace, uh, you know, and, and those guys actually step up? Because as we know, as amazing as SGA is and J Dub and Chet, you know, even the playoff struggles notwithstanding, it's, it's the depth of this team that has made it dominant and dangerous, and that did take a bit of a hit in the summer.

Now, granted there's levels to this, right? Like, they can take a hit with depth and still have far more of it than the vast majority of the NBA.

[laughs]

What does governor enable her to do and not do?

So a key detail there is that when they decided to sell the team to Mark Walter, and, and it's insane how we've already forgotten about that blockbuster.

It's been less than a week, right? Like, since the Lakers got sold for the second time in 14 months.

But when the team went to Mark Walter 14 months ago, uh, you know, part of that agreement was the decision to have Jeanie be the governor, and the NBA had stipulated that they wanted ins- assurances that she would be the governor for, uh, at minimum, a five-year period.

And so that was part of that agreement.

When the team gets sold to Bob Iger and Josh Kushner, uh, my understanding is that that, that aspect of the agreement with Jeanie as governor travels with that agreement, travels with that contract.

And so, uh, for anybody who doesn't know just the way the NBA rules work, that you have to have a 15% share of the team at minimum to be a team governor.

I mean, damn, convoluted much? [laughs] First of all, what was your reaction to the NBA piece and, or the ESPN piece, and the fact that the NBA pushed back so hard?

What does governor enable her to do and not do?

So a key detail there is that when they decided to sell the team to Mark Walter, and, and it's insane how we've already forgotten about that blockbuster.

It's been less than a week, right? Like, since the Lakers got sold for the second time in 14 months.

But when the team went to Mark Walter 14 months ago, uh, you know, part of that agreement was the decision to have Jeanie be the governor, and the NBA had stipulated that they wanted ins- assurances that she would be the governor for, uh, at minimum, a five-year period.

And so that was part of that agreement.

When the team gets sold to Bob Iger and Josh Kushner, uh, my understanding is that that, that aspect of the agreement with Jeanie as governor travels with that agreement, travels with that contract.

And so, uh, for anybody who doesn't know just the way the NBA rules work, that you have to have a 15% share of the team at minimum to be a team governor.

I mean, damn, convoluted much? [laughs] First of all, what was your reaction to the NBA piece and, or the ESPN piece and the fact that the NBA pushed back so hard?

Is it about lifestyle and convenience? Is it about legacy? Is it about really wanting to go after it and win a championship?" Uh, what was your reaction not only to him choosing Philadelphia, but then Rich Paul saying, "Yeah, it was down to Philadelphia and the Warriors," and I'm thinking, gosh, well, the Warriors just sat there and didn't do anything that whole time, and they still might have been the second option in it? That's not a great look for the Bay Area.

Yeah, I mean, I, I certainly understand the tough optics.

I'm always a sucker for the context, though, and the nuance and, and, you know, I'm sure you guys have unpacked it a lot in the past 10 days or so.

But, you know, uh, in terms of what the Warriors could have or even should have done, I, I still haven't been convinced that they had legitimate missteps there.

Um, and to, I guess, to finish on the Warriors' side, as has been reported, the idea that LeBron ultimately, you know, had a hard time getting over the history and the idea that he was just jumping on Steph Curry's team, um, I get that.

And so then the question became, do you go after Anthony Davis? You know, do you go after Jaylen Brown, guys like that? Um, and then there's discussions to be had, but it's not, to me, a, a black and white situation.

The Philly thing, to answer your question, Greg, about the reaction, uh, pretty surprised.

Like, I, I just think about what you said on our airwaves with Murph and Marcus about, we're us getting away from meaningful basketball, and that's exactly what Steph Curry continues to chase in his remaining time as a player.

Is it about lifestyle and convenience? Is it about legacy? Is it about really wanting to go after it and win a championship? Uh, what was your reaction not only to him choosing Philadelphia, but then Rich Paul saying, "Yeah, it was down to Philadelphia and the Warriors," and I'm thinking, gosh, well, the Warriors just sat there and didn't do anything that whole time, and they still might've been the second option in that? That's not a great look for the Bay Area.

Yeah, I mean, I, I certainly understand the tough optics.

I'm always a sucker for the context, though, and the nuance, and, and, you know, I'm sure you guys have unpacked it a lot in the past 10 days or so.

But, you know, in terms of what the Warriors could have or even should have done, I, I still haven't been convinced that they had legitimate missteps there.

Um, and d- I guess to finish on the Warriors side, as has been reported, the idea that LeBron ultimately, you know, had a hard time getting over the history and the idea that he was just jumping on Steph Curry's team, um, I get that.

And so then the question became, do you go after Anthony Davis? You know, do you go after Jaylen Brown, guys like that? Um, and then there's discussions to be had, but it's not, to me, a, a black-and-white situation.

The Philly thing, to answer your question, Greg, about the reaction, uh, pretty surprised.

Like, I, I just think about what you said on our airwaves with Murph and Marcus about, we're, us getting away from meaningful basketball, and that's exactly what Steph Curry continues to chase in his remaining time as a player.

And

I don't know that there is one.

Like Cleveland showed all kinds of warts in the playoffs, right? You know, Miami is, and I'm putting it this way, Rob, because these are the Warriors competitors, right? But like the Heat, you know, I saw Danny Green the other day, a dude who I know he's a role player, but a guy who knows something about winning a ring, literally saying he doesn't think Miami is going to be in the top six in the East.

You know, so LeBron would be a strange fit in Miami.

The best basketball fits really are the places where people kind of unofficially don't expect LeBron to go, which is Minnesota and Denver.

And then to your point about just life in general and the convenience of being in the Bay and Northern California versus, you know, going out East anywhere is everything you hit on.

And, you know, I think that's, that's why it's made for such an interesting situation.

Is that, in your opinion, is that good for the

Sure

... like some of those guys are.

And, and if I was, like, I would've been riding the same rollercoaster they were, you know? Um, I mean, I've had Miami tell me it's Cleveland, I've had Cleveland tell me it's Miami, you know, and, and the Warriors have seemingly had, you know, a lot of pessimism recently, but then, this is just my two cents, but you know, when I watched Steph's perspective, uh, up at the Tahoe golf tournament when, when Slater was asking him about the situation, I felt like there was a, a substantive kind of nature of his response that made me kinda go, "All right, he doesn't sound like, like they're out." You know what I mean? Like, he sounded really engaged, and then you see the Frank Vogel hiring, so we're all trying to connect dots.

But it has been all over the place.

I mean, to this point, um, the most, I would say, like, telling behavior thing publicly is K- uh, Kenny Atkinson, you know, just openly talking on Sirius XM Radio about, you know, them being in the running for maybe the best player of all time, and his energy.

Like, he's gonna take some flak from Cavs fans if they don't get him.

Mm-hmm

... beyond, like, the first week in July." So in that regard, I don't think the NBA is upset about this.

No,

I would completely agree, you know, and I think what we've been on the lookout for is like a, you know, kind of indisputable basketball champion in terms of like the fit.

And I don't know that there is one.

Like Cleveland showed all kinds of warts in the playoffs, right? You know, Miami is, and I'm putting it this way, Rod, because these are the Warriors competitors, right? But like the Heat, you know, I saw Danny Green the other day, a dude who I know he's a role player, but a guy who knows something about winning a ring, literally saying he doesn't think Miami is going to be in the top six in the East.

You know, so LeBron would be a strange fit in Miami.

The best basketball fits really are the places where people kind of unofficially don't expect LeBron to go, which is Minnesota and Denver.

And then to your point about just life in general and the convenience of being in the Bay and Northern California versus, you know, going out East anywhere is everything you hit on.

Is that in your opinion, is that good for the league? I

Sure

... like some of those guys are, and, and if I was, like I would've been riding the same rollercoaster they were, you know? Um, I mean, I've had Miami tell me it's Cleveland.

I've had Cleveland tell me it's Miami, you know, and, and the Warriors have seemingly had, you know, a lot of pessimism recently, but then this is just my two cents, but, you know, when I watched Steph's perspective, uh, up at the Tahoe golf tournament when, when Slater was asking him about the situation, I felt like there was a, a substantive kind of nature of his response that made me kinda go, "All right.

He doesn't sound like, like they're out," you know what I mean? Like, he sounded really engaged, and then you see the Frank Vogel hiring, so we're all trying to connect dots.

But it has been all over the place.

I mean, to this point, um, the most, I would say, like telling behavior thing publicly is K- uh, Kenny Atkinson, you know, just openly talking on SiriusXM Radio about, you know, them being in the running for maybe the best player of all time, and his energy, like he's gonna take some flak from Cavs fans if they don't get him.

Right.

Do you really wanna like have a postscript to that? You know, maybe not.

Is that right?

Yeah, no, you got it.

It's, it's an interesting situation.

Um, I'm not an expert on investigations, but it's certainly alarming or just remarkable, really, that the investigation has taken this long.

You're talking 11 months, and I know it's complicated stuff, but now they trade them to Toronto, the deal's agreed upon.

In our story today, some of the reporting that I had thrown in there was interesting, talking about how the NBA had told both teams, potentially, that this could potentially be a problem, right? That if you trade Kawhi and the investigation's not done, that could be an obstacle.

And rather than keep the trade quiet until the investigation was completed, they leaked the trade.

Has the league or other GMs kind of spoken out about this, or are they kind of respecting it, the hustle and the grind that Bob is doing?

And just reading your article the other day, Sam, with other writers from The Athletic, it seems that, yes, maybe the Cleveland Cavaliers are in the driver's seat, but is it fair to say that most teams are completely in the dark on where things stand with them currently?

Mostly, I mean, the, you know, I have certainly been able to glean some optimism from the Cavs.

Um, I, you know, I don't see this one happening, but there is still hope, uh, from Minnesota, like legitimate hope and, and real work being done on their part to try to, to, you know, do everything they can to, to have them be the winner here.

So you can glean a little bit.

You know, I, I had somebody tell me today that one of the other teams believes that Miami's in the lead.

Now, I don't know where they're getting that intel, and that's always the tricky part.

But, um, the Warriors of course, uh, they've been hard to handicap here 'cause they were out front early on, you know, presumably and, and now, you know, we, we kinda don't know where it's at.

Sure

Yeah

...

but it's certainly alarming that, uh, or just, just, you know, remarkable really that the investigation has taken this long.

Um, you know, you're talking 11 months, and I, I, I know it's complicated stuff.

But now, you know, they trade him to Toronto, the deal's agreed upon.

You know, in our story today, some of the reporting that, that I had thrown in there was interesting, talking about how The, the NBA had told both teams potentially that, you know, that this could potentially be a problem, right? That if you trade Kawhi and the investigation's not done, that could be an obstacle.

And rather than keep the trade quiet until the investigation was completed, they leaked the trade.

And just reading your article the other day, Sam, with other writers from The Athletic, it seems that, yes, maybe the Cleveland Cavaliers are in the driver's seat, but is it fair to say that most teams are completely in the dark on where things stand with them currently?

Is that right?

Yeah, no, you got it.

It's, it's an interesting situation.

Um, I'm not an expert on investigations, but it's certainly alarming or just remarkable, really, that the investigation has taken this long.

You're talking 11 months, and I know it's complicated stuff, but now they trade them to Toronto, the deal's agreed upon.

In our story today, some of the reporting that I had thrown in there was interesting, talking about how the NBA had told both teams, potentially, that this could potentially be a problem, right? That if you trade Kawhi and the investigation's not done, that could be an obstacle.

And rather than keep the trade quiet until the investigation was completed, they leaked the trade.

Has the league or other GMs kind of spoken out about this, or are they kind of respecting it, the hustle and the grind that Bob is doing?

Were you able to decipher any information from Rich Paul's whiteboard that went viral last week?

I did send Rich a note that said, congrats on breaking the internet.

Because that whiteboard, I actually thought it was, pretty fascinating uh you know as a quick aside i just it's incredible that when you analyze you know all these years of lebron making these types of decisions i was talking to my editor the other day about how like think about just the media platforms that he has used to announce his decisions he did a print magazine when he went back to cleveland he did you know the decision on broadcast air which was groundbreaking and now we're doing you know podcasts with the agent so you know, times change.

The whiteboard, in terms of deciphering things, my favorite part was Rich contextualizing the stuff that, to be honest, we spend a lot of time at our place trying to report on, which is like the personal dynamics that a lot of times come into play with situations like this.

Like, okay, Mike Gansey out in Philadelphia, new GM, won a championship with LeBron when he was with Cleveland and was very close with him.

So that's a a thing to remember.

Brandon Weems is the assistant GM in Cleveland and one of LeBron's closest friends who he grew up with.

So if you had to kind of power rank the options behind the Heat and the Cavaliers, if you had to set odds, what do you think the Warriors' odds are for still landing LeBron James?

So if you had to kind of power rank the options behind the Heat and the Cavaliers, if you had to set odds, what do you think the Warriors' odds are for still landing LeBron James?

Well, I mean, Marcus, you make really good points there because not only the Draymond thing, but what has... before I kinda answer the odds question, the thing that, that always struck me, to, to take that a little bit deeper, is that, you know, other teams seem to be pursuing other trades that might impress LeBron enough to come.

Now, nothing big has happened on that front.

But, you know, take the Anthony Davis scenario for example.

Um, if the Warriors were moving heaven and earth to try to get AD out of desperation, that would tell you, like, they don't think they already have LeBron.

They think they need to impress him and go get him.

I, I have found it curious that they have taken the stance of, like, if he comes, then we'll talk about AD.

[laughs]

Were you able to decipher any information from Rich Paul's whiteboard that went viral last

week? I did send Rich a note that said, congrats on breaking the internet.

Because that whiteboard, I actually thought it was, pretty fascinating uh you know as a quick aside i just it's incredible that when you analyze you know all these years of lebron making these types of decisions i was talking to my editor the other day about how like think about just the media platforms that he has used to announce his decisions he did a print magazine when he went back to cleveland he did you know the decision on broadcast air which was groundbreaking and now we're doing you know podcasts with the agent so You know, times change.

The whiteboard, in terms of deciphering things, my favorite part was Rich contextualizing the stuff that, to be honest, we spend a lot of time at our place trying to report on, which is like the personal dynamics that a lot of times come into play with situations like this.

Like, okay, Mike Gansey out in Philadelphia, new GM, won a championship with LeBron when he was with Cleveland and was very close with him.

So that's it.

a thing to remember.

So if you had to kind of power rank the options behind the Heat and the Cavaliers, if you had to set odds, what do you think the Warriors' odds are for still landing LeBron James?

So if you had to kind of power rank the options between the Heat and the Cavaliers, if you had to set odds, what do you think the Warriors' odds are for still landing LeBron James?

Well, I mean, Marcus, you make really good points there because not only the Draymond thing, but what had...

Before I kind of answer the odds question, the thing that, that always struck me, to, to take that a little bit deeper, is that, you know, other teams seem to be pursuing other trades that might impress LeBron enough to come.

Now, nothing big has happened on that front, but, you know, take the Anthony Davis scenario for example.

Um, if the Warriors were moving heaven and earth to try to get AD out of desperation, that would tell you, like, they don't think they already have LeBron.

They think they need to impress him and go get him.

I, I have found it curious that they have taken the stance of, like, 'If he comes, then we'll talk about AD.' Like, that's a very confident stance to take, and it means one of two things.

[laughs]

Uh, whe- when you're asking around, uh, you know, around the league, around, you know, our colleagues at The Athletic, I mean, what are you hearing about this deal, and, and what happened with Jaylen Brown and the Celtics? Is it something behind the scenes, or is this just time to, time to get out of the Jaylen Brown business?

I mean, to me, Dave, there's, there's two tracks that we can have this conversation on.

There's, like, the Celtics specific stuff in terms of interpersonal dynamics, relationship stuff.

To be honest, the, the stuff I enjoy reporting on in terms of understanding people's actions and their motives and why things happen.

The other track is good old-fashioned business, and I'm gonna check that box first real quick.

Uh, you and I were just talking off air about this a little bit, and the economics of the situation are such.

Jaylen Brown is on track to be the seventh highest, uh, paid player in the NBA next season.

W- how do they, how do they kinda make the choice, or is this, was this their number one option, was Walker Kessler, and Jalen Duren was just, "Hey, if this doesn't work out, we can always throw a big contract at, at him"?

Yeah

...

they, they, uh, they...

And it's, you know, listen, my, my buddy and colleague Brian Windhorst at ESPN I thought made some great points the other day talking about Cleveland.

How, uh, his idea is already out the window 'cause he talked about what if the Cavs went out and got Jaylen Brown, um, and, and as a way to entice LeBron.

And but his point remains, a- and the point was that a team like Cleveland that has already shown an ability, you know, it, like this is indisputable that they were far more competitive than the Warriors, you know, even as currently constructed, right? Um, so okay, fine, the Jaylen Brown thing's out the window, but are the Cavs compelling enough basketball-wise? Um, let's go ahead and, and assume we, we do have James Harden coming back on a multi-year deal that'll get finalized.

We have, you know, pretty good signs that Donovan Mitchell is likely to sign his extension and stick around.

But how, yeah, how, how is LeBron James' relationship with Pat Riley today where he's considering the Miami Heat?

Do you see not getting AD as a deal breaker for LeBron joining the Warriors, Sam?

I don't.

Um, it might ultimately prove to be, but, um, you know, right now he, he's not offering a lot of clarity.

Um, he's casting a, a pretty wide net, which honestly is, is, uh, you know, I know people get tired of, of LeBron dominating the headlines for twenty years, but I think it's kind of entertaining.

It's, it's incredible that, you know, that at forty-one years old, he's, he's got us guessing again about what he's gonna do.

I mean, I wrote a story or kind of a, a short analysis earlier today when I'd confirmed that the Nuggets have in fact registered legitimate interest in LeBron.

And so I, I'm kinda looking at it like, "Man, I can't see LeBron James living in Denver," but who the hell knows? And you look at it and it's like, well, the, the, the factors allegedly are this from LeBron's camp, is that, and it's, you know, a lot of this sounds like common sense, but legitimately wants to contend that he is not done, you know, playing high level, uh, contending basketball, competitive basketball.

Yeah

Who offers the best championship pedigree before LeBron shows

up? To me...

Cleveland is pretty darn interesting.

Listen, my buddy and colleague, Brian Whitehorse at ESPN, I thought made some great points the other day talking about Cleveland.

Now his idea is already out the window because he talked about what if the Cavs went out and got Jalen Brown as a way to entice LeBron.

But his point remains, and the point was, that a team like Cleveland that has already shown an ability, you know, like this is indisputable that they were far more competitive than the Warriors, you know, even as currently constructed.

Right.

How is LeBron James' relationship with Pat Riley today where he's considering the Miami Heat?

[laughs]

...

LeBron's other priorities.

You know, his family lives in LA.

Um, that is a tough flight to get out there.

That's a, a tough winter to endure.

And, and at this stage, I mean, say this respectfully, LeBron has been, you know, uh, he's had a bit of a, a diva quality his entire career, and understandably so, but at 41, um, I got a hard time seeing him sledding all the way out to Minnesota.

Uh, how did that sort of come to fruition, uh, as much as, as you can share? And then I gotta ask you, what, what the heck is going on with this Jalen Duren thing? Like, [laughs] why, why Sacramento? Uh, that seems a little odd, and, you know, what's, what happened with him and Detroit to get to this point where it looks like maybe they're breaking up?

Mm-hmm

...

LeBron's other priorities.

You know, his family lives in LA.

Um, that is a tough flight to get out there.

That's a, a tough winter to endure.

And, and at this stage, I mean, say this respectfully, LeBron has been, you know, he's had a bit of a, a diva quality his entire career, and understandably so, but at 41, um, I got a hard time seeing him sledding all the way out to Minnesota.

And, you know, what's, what happened with him and Detroit to get to this point where it looks like maybe they're breaking up?

Like, what's next with Jaylen Brown? Like, is his time coming to an end in Boston? 'Cause it certainly feels that way.

It does feel that way.

Uh, this one is, if I had to handicap it, it just, it feels like, uh, you know, somebody has gotta put enough on the table to get this thing done.

But Boston is asking for the, the sun and the moon.

You know, I keep looking at Portland, and because people keep bringing Portland up when I talk to them, you know, they, they wanted to go big on a, you know, on Giannis, and that didn't work.

Um, even without a commitment they were willing to try to do a Giannis trade.

And when you see that kind of, of boldness, if you will, then you kinda go, all right, if they...

... to Miami thing done, thank you, what else happens for the Heat? Like, how are they f- they gotta do more, right? Like, you gotta add to this roster and sort of fill it out.