Salt

Right.

I guess, I mean, we have seen across the industry people so angry that with VMware for the price changes, for the right forcing people into VCF, the sort of vision that VCF and then bundling everything into it would get people to shrug and say, oh, if I'm paying for VMware Kubernetes and I'm paying for SaltStack and I'm paying for VRA and sort of just accept that it's a bundled suite and then embrace the bundle, I haven't seen that strategy pay off, at least in our, in our customer base or in any of the chatter I hear that they're still, most people are still pretty angry about it.

Um, you know, you're, we, we started from a VMware.

That's why I was actually glad to have you, you, you say, all right, we can, we can be neutral.