Sacramental union

physical baptism is what they do.

I think there's a conceptual union, a sacramental union between the sign and the thing signified.

So then if somebody says circumcision saves them, makes them right before God, and they're not just talking about spiritual circumcision of the heart, but they're actually talking about the physical act, would you agree with that person or disagree?

Well, it's the same as like if someone says the blood of bulls and the Old Testament takes away my sins.

Hebrews clarified it was never the blood of bulls itself.

It was the sacrifice Christ made.

But because of the sacramental union, they were still able to say the sacrifice from the blood of the animals was what took away their sins, even though in reality that wasn't what happened.

So

Two elements.

In the Lutheran view, they call it a sacramental union.

That's the phrase that they use.

Some people call it consubstantiation, but they don't like that phrase because...