I think that's, you know, i- important is just having those different spaces as well, 'cause I guess some spaces work better for some people and not for others, would you say, Ruth?

Yes, definitely.

Definitely.

I think...

And I, I think that's one of the distinctions about post-graduate research from other forms of, um, other learning spaces in the university, different kinds of courses, is that it's not a, it's not a taught program where there's a series of modules and a kind of core list of you need to read these things, but there's a lot available.

And so a big thing that we do at, in those early stages and encourage post-graduate researchers to do, uh, alongside their supervisors, is to have conversations about where they're at right now and what support they think they need, and sometimes don't know, right? 'Cause it can be quite daunting.

It's...

[laughs]