Robin D. G. Kelley

Um, and the, I really love the Stuart Hall episode that we did out of it, kind of an intro to Stuart Hall's thought, which was, like, a fun experiment for us in, like, writing something, um, scripted for The Dig.

And I, I think, like, the last tranche is, like, the different conjuncture episodes you've done with Thea, with Amna, with Gabe, um, with Aziz, with, um, Ruth Wilson Gilmore, with Robin D.G. Kelley.

Asli Bali.

Asli Bali.

It's so interesting that actually so many of the questions that we've gotten in the mail bag are variations on this, right? It's like, what does socialism look like? Or what does socialist foreign policy be? And that does seem both like our reluctance to answer those questions and the interest from listeners is probably symptomatic of something about our conjuncture, which is like also the entry of more and more socialists into different levels of US government and a desire to both, like, at the level of political communication, articulate the larger vision, but also a desire to differentiate ourselves from just progressive Democrats and, or even like kind of like a sepia toned nostalgia for, um, returning to a welfare states of, of the 20th century.

But like what actually gets at the content of socialism? I don't remember if I said this earlier when we were doing the foreign policy question, but you know, like programs right there, as you know, someone once put it, programs are experiments, right? They are about creating new alliances and new lines of force, and I think that's just as true for any of the recipes or c- you know, uh, uh, cook shops of the future that, that we're thinking about now.

I've been thinking a lot about this passage from Robin D.G. Kelley's Hammer and Hoe that we've talked about, I think, already on this episode, where he kind of is, you know, recounting the story of organizing a massive steel mill.

And workers are getting together and are having trouble mapping exactly where leverage exists in the plant and might...

And I think that's just as true for any of the recipes or cookshops of the future that we're thinking about now.

I've been thinking a lot about this passage from Rob and DG Kelly's Hammer and Hoe that we've talked about, I think, already on this episode.

where he kind of is, you know, recounting the story of organizing a massive steel mill.

And workers are getting together and are having trouble mapping exactly where leverage exists in the plant.

You, you can't...

I, it's hard for me to tell you what it took for me to write my response, okay? I'm writing a response to Angela Davis, to Ruth Gilmore, who I've known for decades and decades, and Robin Kelley, who I've known since the late '80s, friend of mine for years and years and years.

I'm writing a public response to Mumia Abu-Jamal, okay? I knew that he, there was something fishy about his name, but still, yeah, it took an enormous amount of me crying in the bathroom saying, you know-

Mm

I should probably give him a shout-out.

Dr. Robin D.G. Kelley, he's got lots of amazing books to read, and they're nonfiction, so I read them slower [laughs] than I do some of the fiction, but he's an amazing writer, of course.

Um, but he gifted me, I was probably early teens, and he gave me Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison, and that was my first book, and he also gave me a few other books.

And, you know, I was also the kid who grew up in the '80s, so I read a lot of Sweet Valley High books.

I agree.

You know, my, um, Dr. Robin D.G. Kelley, a historian told me that, "You know, man, your father is one of the top five civil rights leaders in the country."

Mm.

Top five.