Robert Stavins

But maybe could you talk a little bit about how California and Quebec are working together? And is that a model for other regional cooperation?

We did a research project with Rob Stavins and his team at Harvard probably eight or 10 years ago where we explored this and we talked a bit about benefits of collaboration.

carbon clubs or carbon hubs.

And the way we differentiated was kind of the old school way under the Kyoto Protocol was kind of a hub and spoke where the hub was the UN mechanism that could be used anywhere, right? But it had these tentacles reaching out to developing countries for supply and to developed countries for demand.