Robert Rosen

I mean, one, one of the examples from, from the literature and kind of more theoretical biology, um, there's this book by, uh, uh, Moreno and Mossio on biological autonomy.

They, they are building on the ideas of, uh, people like Francisco Varela and, uh, you know, Robert Rosen, and they talk about-

Hmm

... like networks of constraints that are operating at a higher Let's say layer, right? Because, uh, on-

But in case of living organisms, you acquire, let's say, acquire new skills.

You acquire new ways of, uh, of, of sensing your environment.

That was actually a very interesting idea that, um, that Robert Rosen put together, this notion of emergence relative to a model.

Like this...

And so, but that was two thousand and fifteen after this paper that you're talking about.

But, but the idea, um, which has origins-- well, I don't wanna say origins, but, uh, is, refers back to people like Stuart Kauffman, Robert Rosen, uh, et cetera.

The, the idea is that autonomy is, um, [lip smack] can be thought of or is defined by almost what's called closure of constraints-

Yes

Um, Stuart Kauffman's investigation, and even before that, um, The Origins of Order from nineteen ninety-three was, uh, w- Origins of Order was the first, uh, big book by Kauffman.

And Investigation in two thousand is the, the, um, uh, the book that really, uh, starts this tradition that gets re- get, gets referenced most of the time.

And of course, uh, Robert Rosen, uh, Life Itself and all the stuff from a bit earlier on.

Life Itself is from nineteen ninety-one, and other papers, uh, are from the, from the eighties.