Robert Moss

Yeah.

I think it was, we read that, uh, I think it was Robert Moss who said that the term country would've referred to Indian, uh, culture.

Okay.

And then captain would've referred to, um-

So pointing to the kind of necessity of the structure of the cocoon to be such that even once the butterfly has formed, there is some friction, there is some struggle to emerge from the cocoon in order for that butterfly to have a robustness as it emerges into the world.

And the other one was Robert Moss talking about Nikos Kazantzakis, hopefully I say that name correctly, where he was-- he found a cocoon, and he was wanting to-- the, the butterfly to come out, so he started to blow on, [chuckles] on the cocoon to warm the cocoon up.

And again, rushing this process by blowing on the cocoon, actually the butterfly didn't survive.

So here we are, we have these examples at, uh, we have these examples of what happens both when we don't actually see that there's a meaning and a purpose to some of the struggle, to some of the friction, and that rushing ourselves through this process...