Mm.

He was saying, "Va-t-en Satan," b- be gone, Satan.

So it wasn't just these two kids, but there was a power behind them that he was recognizing, right? But at the end, they, um, they slit his throat.

Now, I remember this one because this is the following year, 2016.

I was in Krakow for World Youth Day, and I was speaking th- this night to, uh, this grand gathering and this huge arena, 25,000 kids.

And I had a talk all prepared, right? But that day, the news broke about Jacques Hamel.

And so I, I remember I, I told the stadium full of people, I said, "I prepared a talk, but I'm not gonna give it.

Uh, say a few words about them.

How does a society that is scientistic, materialistic, distracted, incurious, cynical, skeptical, how did they come to believe what you just wrote?

Here's my first observation.

I think anyone that's lived a little while knows, I can't explain the depth of evil that I see simply by appealing to fallen human beings.

I think there's a level of evil that is so deep, it's so profound, that we say, nah, there's something else going on.

You know, another small book I wrote, Letter to a Suffering Church, I begin with that observation.

that it was the sex abuse scandal that reaffirmed my belief in the personality of the devil.

Because, and I still affirm this, the sex abuse scandal was such a masterpiece of evil.

So, Bishop, In the 21st century, what role does the Catholic Church play in fighting the evils of Satan and his acolytes? And why does it seem that in our current states, we're still the underdogs?

Mm-hmm.

I mean, English is a, is an incredibly rich language and subtle, but it's a weakness of English that we don't have a word that really names it.

I alwa-- that's why I go back to Thomas Aquinas all the time.

To love is not to have positive feelings about someone.

It's not to empathize with someone.

To love is to will the good of the other.

And I like the austerity of that language.

Yeah.

How does that fit into your evaluation of his work?

Oh, big time.

You know, I, I always say to people, he was so successful in part because he was so well-formed in the Catholic intellectual tradition.

Way too many people today, to be honest with you, I think, just put out the shingle.

You know, "I'm a Catholic theologian.

I'm a Catholic spokesperson." Sheen had the aggrege doctorate from Louvain.

He had 20 years of teaching at Catholic U.

What do you find to be the most important thing to be doing, or the most important things to be doing at this moment in the history of the church in America?

believers and non-believers so i want to ask why a film you've written extensively you of course have wonderful television series and youtube and podcast and thanks for going on theo von thoroughly enjoyed that but a movie is a very specific type of of expressing the beauty of this you only have so much time you've got to work kind of in this this limit why a film bishop baron

We're going to show these buildings off.

You know, we have this now marvelous modern technology, including the drone photography and all that.

Then we're at a unique moment to really show them off.

And then the film gave me more breathing space.

I had an hour and a half now to spend with these buildings.

As you say, you could do a whole semester course in them, but It gave me more breathing room and a chance to really show them off.

Can you tell me the difference real quick, Bishop, between Romanesque, Gothic, Renaissance, Baroque? When you say Gothic cathedral, a person's going to picture something very specific, but what does that mean?

Like, what, what's a ribbons? What function do they have in the full liturgy?

Yeah.

Well, and, and just to finish that thought is, is they, we designed those little booklets to avoid that, to make them user-friendly.

I might recommend getting those to get into it.

Well, yes, when [chuckles] I remember even when I got my first one, I was like, "Oh, my God," because it's this big book.

Uh, they're about this thick, you know? And they've got, they're divided by weeks.

Week one, week two, week three, week four.

But how does this work when we pray for others, for our country, for our community? What effect does our praying for them really have? Thank you.

Mm.

Once we care about something, we get very interested in the objectivity of it.

You know, when people say, "I'm an ethical relativist," and all that, well, okay, what about slavery? Is slavery just your opinion that it's wrong? Or you think it's really wrong in itself? Oh, no.

Slavery's wrong in itself.

All right, well, that's what I mean by objective, you know, moral value.

The same is true of the beautiful, right? Oh, you got your opinion, I got my opinion.

No, no, no.

Yeah.

Yeah

... theory of scapegoating violence, and part of that is this tendency of mobs to form.

So when a scapegoat emerges, there's tension within the community, that one of the best ways to create this ersatz sense of community is we all come together in blaming, you know, this person or that group.

Well, mobs can happen, uh, easily enough in, in the real world.

On the internet space, they can happen like that because people are all connected.

And so there's, you know, a video has ap- emerged, or someone said something that we don't like, and then one person attacks, and oh, oh, oh, that, I wanna get on that.

And all I have to do is go, "Yeah, that's right," and boom.

Yeah.

Hmm.

That was Tolkien's way of saying this truth, that evil is frightening, but essentially, it's a type of non-being.

It's a lack of a good that ought to be there, like a, like a cavity in a tooth.

So the cavity, you say, "Man, that's real and it hurts." But the cavity itself is just an emptiness, right? Evil's like that, uh, physical evil or moral evil.

Moral evil is a lack of an integrity that ought to be there in your, in your soul.

So in that way, you can't say God's the cause of evil, 'cause God is the cause of all being, right? So then you have to say, well, God permits evil, and that's true.

He, He allows it to be.

Does that make sense?

Mm-hmm.

I mean, English is an, is an incredibly rich language and subtle, but it's a weakness of English that we don't have a word that really names it.

I alwa-- that's why I go back to Thomas Aquinas all the time.

To love is not to have positive feelings about someone.

It's not to empathize with someone.

To love is to will the good of the other, and I like the austerity of that language.

Uh, love is an act of the will, not a feeling of the heart.

Yeah.

How do you read these three?

Very basic needs of people that have to be met.

Um, again, we can fly into the realm of [laughs] abstraction.

Oh, I'm helping people.

Well, well, how? Th- there are people who are in need in this most basic way.

Now, you say, "Oh, I guess, you know, overseas, so I'll send some money to the missions." Well, fine.

I have nothing against that.

Goodbye.

All right let's talk a little bit about some specific forms of prayer I think classically in prayer there's different types such as thanksgiving adoration petition metaphysically is there a sort of hierarchy of these types of prayers you know I've sometimes heard it said that petitionary prayer is sort of the lowest level type of prayer and that as you advance you move forward Do you kind of see things that way

Yeah I know that tradition I dont buy it thouggh andd aim with john paul too dat the older i gettt tehm ore ai csee first wall bet every prayer isa petitionery praeyer ahhh eeven merton talked abouut that inthe infifties yunno thay theresis kinda prejudice against petitionary prayers likke lowl levell the waay yuno children preyy buutt heckk theooh with johhn paull id saayy dath tee olderrr ii geet the moore iii realizze ALL MY PRAYER HAS THAT FORM BUT I THINK ITS FINE TO TALK ABOUT THESE DIFFERENT LEVELS AND DIFFERENT TYPES AND IM GLAD YOU MENTIONED THE HOLY HOUR SO JUST UH WHAT LIKE UHH BOOUT TWO HOURS AGOO III WAS INN MAH CHAPEL ANDD ITZ NOTTA BAD WAYYY TOO DIVIDDEE YOUR HOLLYY HOUURR IF YU WANNA DOIT THATT WAAAYY UUH APRAYERR OF ADORATION WHATCHISTHAT WELL YOUNNO ADORE RATIO MOUTH TO MOUHTTH AH ITS SIMPLY BEINGGG INNN THE PRESENCE OFF GODDD INAN ATTITUDEEE OV V UNION YUNO IMJUSTIN IMNOT ASKINGG IMNOT THANKSING REALLY IMOJUSS THERE IMM JUSST ORDERING MA LIFE TOO GOODD SPEND FIFTEEN MINUTESSS OF UR HOLY HOURRR SIMPLYINA STANCEOF ADORO RATIO RIGHT Uh, a prayer of thanksgiving.

Like in someone like you, Brandon, you know, who's ... have so much to be thankful for as the father of a family.

Uh, spend 15 minutes thanking God for each of your kids.

I think it's easier as...

in a way for parents 'cause you got such brilliant examples of, of gifts that God has given you, you know? As a, at a, as a parent, that's a beautiful way to pray, I think, is just think of each one of your kids one by one and why you're thankful for that child, what that child's brought to your life.

So in my case, it wouldn't be children, but other things that God has done for me.

Thank you.

It's like, well, why is that precisely? Yeah.

Well, the quick answer is corrupted freedom, you know, or a misguided freedom, you might say.

But the word comes into flesh, into fallen flesh.

And the cross is what? The cross is cruelty and hatred and violence and institutional injustice and stupidity.

And if you read the passion narratives, it's a beautiful sort of poetic presentation of all that's wrong with us.

It comes out to meet him.

And bearing all of that, he continues in his relationship of obedience and unity with the Father.

No, true.

What's your take on that?

We'd never have children because...

I can't think of one moment in human history, recorded human history, that's not been characterized by extraordinary suffering and injustice and stupidity and hatred.

And say, well, it's a terrible world.

Well, look, it's always a terrible world.

It's a fallen world.

It's a compromised world.

God bless you.

So, Bishop, what, biblically speaking, starting there, insight do we have into the problem and the origin of suicidal empathy? What is it getting wrong about humanity? What is it getting wrong about the nature of the moral world?

It's getting wrong what love is.

So, and I know we talked before we went on camera here.

It is a limitation of the English language that we don't have a word that really gets at what the Bible and the great tradition mean.

Because love is a very ambiguous word.

I mean, English is an incredibly rich language and subtle, but it's a weakness of English that we don't have a word that really names it.

That's why I go back to Thomas Aquinas all the time.

Could we also say that our emotional life is fallen and we shouldn't take feelings about ourselves or others, but certainly about ourselves, as necessarily normative, that maybe we do feel bad, but we shouldn't feel bad.

[laughing]

You know, a lot of buildings kind of come and go.

A lot of buildings burn down.

A lot of historic buildings burned down.

But this one, that one, when it was burning, everyone was trembling.

And then we didn't just knock it down and put something in its place.

People from all over the world contributed to the restoration of that building.

Yeah.

Right.

Given, mind you, and I've said this over and over again, not by the government, but by God, endowed by their creator.

So an acknowledgement of something objective and indeed, uh, sacred about the rights of individuals.

The, the freedom, dignity, and equality of the individual, that seems to be part of a, of a democratic sensibility.

Equality of opportunity, equality before and under the law.

Um, and then go into the Bill of Rights following from human dignity, things like freedom of speech and freedom of assembly and freedom of the press and so on.

I- I'd say, and then, you know, I, I also would add limited government I think is really key to a democratic sensibility, and that too is a deeply religious idea if you press it, I think.

Yeah, yeah

[laughs]

... it's hard to name a time when there wasn't some kind of opposition to Christianity.

Look, from the very beginning, look in the pages of the Acts of the Apostles, you can see it.

And the reason is Christianity's a public religion.

Uh, it's never been a matter of simply, um, our private convictions.

It's not just like a hobby or a private conviction.

When you say Jesus Christ is Lord, which is the basic evangelical proclamation, that's a public remark.

Right.

Right.

And the building itself was seen as, as her dwelling place or even her body.

And, um, I remember his thing about the, the, the west rose window like a, like a brooch on her breast or the, um...

I'm gonna do Chartres this way.

Here's the nave and apse, the transept, right? On this west facade, you have the great rose.

When the sun comes through there, and it comes down at a certain point in the day as exactly the same size as the labyrinth, which is right about, like, waist level, if you want, of the torso, right? And it's an exact, um, same size, and when the light comes down, it plays, it, it illuminates the, the labyrinth.

Well, what do we have here? If this-- if the Church is the body of the Blessed Mother, uh, the labyrinth is at the level of the womb, and what happens but the light of the Holy Spirit that comes at the Annunciation and impregnates her and makes her the tabernacle.

Uh, so Bishop, say a little bit about that theme in, in the film and how it plays out.

And the lack of embedding is what is ripe for manipulation, right? Because you can move, this is what we're seeing with sort of mob-like mentality throughout the culture across the spectrum because you can move people like a school of fish because they're not embedded in something.

In the text, that's what we saw at the beginning.

Pharaoh, that's what Pharaoh wants to do.

Pharaoh wants to reduce the Israelites to potential so that he can then rule over them and manipulate them.

He doesn't want families.

He doesn't want all these embedded structures which create this normal pyramid.

Those

They don't compete with each other.

I'm anxious." H- how do we distinguish this very specific concept of the dark night of the soul of John of the Cross from just general sadness, depression, anxiety, confusion?

Right.

It- they're different.

[laughs] They're not the same thing at all.

Now, here's the point of, um, of contact.

There, there's, there's a point where we could see a, a, a connection.

Namely, if I am attached through my senses and through my mind to the things of this world and I wanna get detached, well, that can be painful, right? It's not easy.

...that in our own lives?

Right, right

... you know? Nor i- is my little puny will going to change the divine will.

God saying, "You know, I'm, I'm not gonna give that, but y- you've been so persistent that all right, all right, I'll give in." Well, no.

That, that turns God into a moved mover, into a contingent reality, so that can't be the case.

Uh, prayer is the raising of the mind and the heart to God.

It's, it's bringing our minds and hearts into the presence of God and seeking union with the Lord.

So as I, I'm expressing what I want, what I think is best for me, but it's by no means the case that that really is what's best for me.

I've had a season of quite a bit of loss, both friends and family, young and old, and I'm just wondering why exactly do we pray for the dead? And can I pray for the, the dead souls of, of atheists and non-Catholics? Thank you.

[bell dings] Hire the right pro today.

Greetings to everybody.

Uh, this talk is two years delayed for me, 'cause two years ago, I was just about to give this presentation at the university series and I came down with shingles.

I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Then last year, I was gonna give the same talk [laughs] and COVID broke out.

So now at least virtually, I can be with you for this, uh, presentation.

As Bob mentioned, the title, Stay With Us: A Reflection on the Unaffiliated, sometimes called the nones, the N-O-N-E-S, those who would check none on the survey if they asked about their religion.

Visit www.sharetheroadsafely.gov.

And then what you see them having produced and may still be capable of yet producing.

Well, look, I think the, it, it was one of the great accomplishments of the [coughs] Trump administration, but I think it's an American accomplishment.

I don't think it's just a Trump accomplishment or a, you know, a Jared Kushner or [coughs] Mike Pompeo or Steve Mnuchin or Robert O'Brien accomplishment.

I think it was an accomplishment for our country that we were able to, to use America's influence to bring peace.

And it goes back to y- you know, what we talked about earlier in the show about peace through strength.

A m- a strong America is good not just for America, but it's good for the world because it allows for peace to, to break out.

Uh, the Abraham Accords originally started out as a, a deal between the UAE, the United Arab Emirates, and Israel to bring peace to those two countries, both strong partners of the United States, both small countries, but the small countries that punch way above their weight in international affairs and certainly in the region.

Yeah.

As a priest, was there a day, an experience, a moment that now, you know, that defined me, that was a brick in the foundation of Bishop Barron?

Yeah, I mean, there'd be a number of things, I suppose, because I did different things in the course of my priesthood.

So my early years were in a parish, and it was a very busy parish outside Chicago.

And, you know, just those moments in the confessional, which I can't really talk about that much, but the first time an older person—so I'm this newly ordained 27-year-old— called me father and was seeking spiritual advice.

And I realized that word priest from presbyteros, meaning elder, and that you're called upon to be a spiritual elder to people.

That stays in my mind as a powerful kind of priestly moment.

A lot of my priesthood has been involved in teaching and reading and writing and all that.

You know, it's