Richard Serra

Wow.

But, like, I mean, I feel like I would go to openings in Chelsea, and I was like, I don't know how I, like, who do you talk to at a Richard Serra opening? You know, like, it felt just like...

Right.

And then my work, I wasn't super comfortable with my work because it was, like, so...

I mean, this is before the wall came down.

It was like we had, and Vito, and then all of the Arte Povera people, like all, I don't know if you know that, that group of artists, like, um- They were from Italy, and they were doing, like, conceptual art, and, like, like, Richard Serra was there-

Mm

... and Robert Smithson was there, and, like, Eva Hesse had already died, but she was one of my favorite artists.

Do you think younger artists today have enough... economic and institutional space to dissent genuinely or has professionalization made it harder to take the kinds of risk that your generation could take or that you've taken um

you know i think every generation finds a way to you know to rebel and to to speak out and to dissent and and you know it is certainly economically more challenging now to make art than it was when i was in my 20s and 30s um but when i was in my 20s and 30s it was harder than when you know the generation before you know what it's like i mean it's just a question i mean it's not even rebellious but it's like you know they're interviews with, say, Richard Serra, where he talks about living in a loft in Soho and walking out one day and seeing a ton of, I think it's used tires or something.

And he called a friend and said, let's haul this stuff up to my, and he had a year's worth of art making materials there.

And, you know, and that New York doesn't exist.

But it's, yeah, Donald Judd is one of my go-to artists.

I really, you know, if I know a museum has his work up and Richard Serra, those two.

What's your favorite thing to listen while you work? My favorite thing to listen to while I work.

I either listen to, I do listen to Radio 4, but I use that more as a timer.