One just happened today as

we were speaking.

This is August 7th, our recording date here.

And yes, the 5th.

U.S. White House UAP tranche just was released just earlier this morning, just a couple of hours ago, as we're speaking now.

So I haven't had a chance to review that in any detail.

I did glean it a little bit.

What's sort of the summary of the story

[laughs]

... thing to expect out of people like that.

Uh, you go in following a certain puzzle, a certain problem, and you pursue that.

So, uh, I think UFO research has always had this kind of quality where you've got all of these interested people going in, kind of doing their own thing.

Um, as, uh, my friend Steven Bassett often has said, it's kind of like the intellectual ghetto of our society.

And when you're in a ghetto like that, uh, marginalized from kind of the establishment point of view and the mainstream point of view, you can have a lot of infighting.

I think that's part of it.

Hm.

And, and can you tell people a little about what High Jump was?

Yeah, absolutely.

So Op- Operation High Jump was, um, a very lar- I think 5,000, um, troops were part of this.

It was, uh, um, run by Admiral Richard, uh, Byrd, who was a, a very famous explorer, and he led a mission to, uh, what officially I think was an exploratory, um, expedition to a certain part of Antarctica.

And, uh, it ended several months early.

There were, there were a few deaths of, um, of crew members, uh, along the way of the mission.

And, um, and there was one statement, uh, attributed to Byrd in a, uh, I think it was a Chilean newspaper right after that, which was an ominous statement.

Okay

Probably asking you a ton of different, you know, questions or hypotheses there, but I'm curious what your thoughts are.

I, I think, uh, you're moving into a very interesting theory that I probably agree with, which is simply that, uh, it's possible that, and it, and, and it would make sense, that any visiting intelligence, if-- Let's, let's say they just arrived in large numbers in the 1940s.

I know many people argue, well, they, they, whoever they happen to be, have, they've been here forever.

Well, I don't know who the they is that's been here forever.

Uh, I do know that the quantity of, of genuine and good sightings has gone, you know, um, to orders of magnitude greater since, since the 1940s.

That's undeniable to me.

There's some good sightings prior to that, but it really just goes crazy, uh, during and after the World War II period.

Mm-hmm.

What do you make of Burchette's comments about the dark forces that are keeping this clamped down?

He's hinted at this many times, you know, many times.

I think he's, I mean, it's hard to say this about a member of Congress, but I think he's totally sincere when it comes to the UFO subject.

He's been entirely consistent from the get-go, and he's consistently shown that he deeply distrusts all the various branches of the government, the bureaucracies within the government, the national security state.

He says all the things that I would want to hear a member of Congress say, and he's never given me reason to think that he doesn't believe any of that stuff.

So I think he's aware.

But the thing about him is, and I have no doubt that he has been briefed on things that are probably very profound and that he can't probably, I'm not saying he's an NDA, but for whatever legal reason, he just has to be careful.

This is not some easily some easy penetration that you're going to go in and suddenly have movement on when they they are well rehearsed in the cover up, aren't they?

Were you able to find certain things in the USO data that jumped out at you?

Yes, um, and [laughs] I'll say a few things about this.

A, it was t- very much to my surprise, but B, I didn't even-- When I started, uh, this project of collecting USO cases a little over four years ago, I, I didn't plan to do a data, a data analysis.

Uh, I noticed that there are some very good water-based cases that just seem to be scattered all over the place, that there was no-- they didn't seem to be a very good single repository for them.

Turns out there was one.

It was a, a website by a, a deceased researcher by the name of Carl Feint, who did very good, very good work on this.

His website is now gone.

Intentionally clandestine.

What do you think?

I think that's, um, I w- I would love that, uh, Jeremy and, and Steven Greer both release what they have if they're able and willing to do it, by all means.

Um, I guess this is what I would say about the releases.

By the way, I didn't hear Luna make that statement, but that doesn't surprise me at all because when she talked about, you know, I demand these for- 46 videos that she talked about, particularly the third release by the White House, a number of the videos Struck me as exactly the ones, some of the ones that Luna kind of referred to.

And some of those videos are really quite interesting.

I mean, the problem with all of the videos, there's two aspects.

There's the videos and then there's the documents.

Yep.

Is there a Soviet story that really stands out to you, a, a case?

Oh, many.

Yeah, the, the Russians have, uh, some remarkable cases.

And here, here's the thing about the Soviet side of it.

Uh, you know, during most of the history of the Soviet Union, that was a, a communist state.

It was under a very, very strict, uh, ideological control, the nation was, and, uh, there was a strong amount of, let's say, informational control within the society.

And so discussion of UFOs in general was, for the most part, very highly restricted.

So do you find there are a lot more military encounters than civilian?

There was just something that was too legitimate to ignore.

For many, many years, Hynek really just played the Air Force's party line on UFOs.

But finally, as you're really getting into the 1960s, 1966 and '67, Hynek makes his public position clear that this is a serious phenomenon.

Uh, he was somebody who first spoke out in 1989.

Bob Lazar is someone who became famous back in 1989 as a result of a very specific claim that he made, and that claim is that he worked at a place just south of Area 51.

He called it S-4.

He was interviewed by a Las Vegas journalist, George Knapp, in a series of very detailed interviews.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, so I go down there, and what I was impressed by, at least for the, the day that I was there before the thing was unveiled, were the analysis of the, uh, the Mexican physiologist and a Canadian physiologist as well, who said, "This is not a human being." And I thought, "Well, this isn't proof of anything." And I always maintained it wasn't proof of any alien body, but I did say, "That seems compelling to me, and if it's going to be debunked, I th- I would think some physiologists need to debunk it." Well, here's what happened.

So it gets, uh, revealed on May 5th, big auditorium in Mexico City, webcam.

And the, I think three or four days later, uh, a group of, uh, independent researchers looking at it said, "We've r- we've deciphered the fuzzy placard in front of this thing," which no one was able to read, "and it says definitively that this is a, uh, two-year-old child mummy." And I, I mean, that absolutely settled it.

Um, so that's it.

That's, that's really the Roswell slide thing.

Now, w- the other aspect of it, I guess I would say, is that this turned into, in my opinion, it turned into, like, this UFO Armageddon in the minds of some people, which I don't really think it was.

Okay.

Mm.

And still, uh, the, the largest number of cases that I have been able to collect are from the 1970s.

Uh, and actually there was a, a, a peak that really went from the late '60s up until the early '80s, but really all of the 1970s.

And not only that, so there's a, a quantity that was really quite shocking to me.

Uh, but also behavioral changes.

So one thing that happened, really it started at the end of the '60s, but by the '70s it was in full swing, and that was a shift of the phenomenon toward predominantly nighttime operations.

So prior to, uh, the late '60s, [lip smack] uh, of all the cases that I collected, it was almost exactly 50% were in the daytime and 50% were at nighttime.

Mm-hmm

That's the way I feel anyway.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I take your point.

I would just say a couple of things.

One, uh, the government you ask who's, who are they doing this for? And it's true they're not doing it for you or for me or for anyone listening.

They're doing it to cover their ass.

Probably asking you a ton of different, you know, questions or hypotheses there, but I'm curious what your thoughts are.

How did you come up with the idea and was it a bet or was it your idea, Richard? Come on.

Yeah, during the decade... of working with Jeff and Fiona, what really sort of stuck out is Jeff had done this fantastic job over the years of, you know, bringing together or establishing a collection of brands, but there was no real umbrella over them.

So we established the Wines by Jeff Hardy umbrella over his distinct brands.

And what really became apparent during that 10 years is just the inherent value that there is in the, you know, in the surname Hardy.

And, you know, I sort of recognise that from a commercial perspective by the time of our third date.

And when we got the opportunity to acquire, on very generous terms, it has to be said by your parents, the Perderinga brand.

We sought to not repeat some of the confusion that had occurred with Jeff's business and really just sort of have Perderinga as one of the family of brands within the Beck Hardy Wines portfolio.

Oh,

Elizondo's testimony seems to confirm that the Advanced Aerospace Weapon Systems Application program, a former Pentagon special access program also referred to as AAWSAP, was attempting to have exotic material transferred from Lockheed Martin who apparently really wanted it gone.

On one occasion, was asked by Representative Tim Burleson of Missouri about a very important story, and I'm glad Burleson mentioned this.

It is the claim, uh, that during the, uh, 2007, 2008 AAWSAP years, it's, um, the first iteration of what became AATIP, that there was an attempted transfer of non-human technology from Lockheed Martin to Bigelow Aerospace.

Now, Bigelow Aerospace was the primary contractor to the AAWSAP program under the DIA.

Uh, Robert Bigelow is very good friends with Senator Harry Reid.

Reid is the, was really the sponsor of all of this A- AAWSAP program.

And so what we learned about a week before the hearing in a bit of very good journalism was that it looks as though Lockheed Martin was going to transfer non-human technology to Bigelow Aerospace, and that was blocked twice by a senior CIA executive named Glenn Gaffney.

And some experts suggest that the nature of the encounters seem to suggest that the technology didn't originate from Earth.

Have you had to do that? Have you had to pay to get in these circles? And how much, as an entrepreneur, should we budget out to get in these circles and be around these people that we can receive that halo effect?

I mean, there's an old Hindu proverb that reads, "The hand that gives, gathers," right? The hand that gives, gathers.

If you help a lot of people get what they want, they'll in turn help you get what you want.

So did I pay per se? In some instances, yes.

To get to a certain city you've gotta fly.

You've gotta stay in a hotel.

You know, there's costs associated with that.

... teach me and Jolie what, what we need to know.

Richard Dolan is the author of UFOs and the National Security State.

He was able to measure the speed that they were going at by, because he knew the distance between two particular peaks, which were about 50 miles apart, and he timed the passage of these objects by the peaks and came to something like 1,200 miles per hour, which in 1947 was just not done at all anywhere close to that.

With most of the reports coming from Phoenix, as well as photographs and video footage, the incident becomes known as the Phoenix Lights.

The entire city of Phoenix was able to see this half-a-mile-long display of lights over the city in a very, very distinctive pattern.

It was a triangular-ish shaped object, uh, seen very reliably by quite a large number of witnesses.

I wonder, have you seen any correlating data between what happens in those areas? Is it, is it more random? Is it, you know, geo-specific as to are they collecting water? Are they monitoring navies, people?

I'll probably be able to answer that a little bit better in a month or two after I start going through, um-- after I start analyzing the data that I'm, I'm categorizing.

So I'm not done with that.

But just observationally, uh, there are a couple of other hotspots.

So I'll, I'll just mention.

Yeah, the Caribbean, specifically around Puerto Rico, very, very much so.

Uh, Catalina Island, the Channel Islands off the coast of LA, also very much so.

For, for you, Richard, what are some of your favorite cases from the book that maybe stand out that, that are a little bit different to the rest?

Mm-hmm.

And UFOs implied unknown forces beyond party control.

And therefore, discussion of UFOs was, was explicitly treated as counter-revolutionary.

So during the nineteen fifties and sixties and, and most of the seventies, it was, it was banned.

It was illegal.

And so si- sightings occurred anyway.

We, we have a number of that have come down to us from the Maoist period.

People forget that quite a lot.

Unlikely as I think that's going to be, where do you think we're going to be sitting in a couple of weeks' time?

You're raising a lot of very interesting questions that are coming up in my mind here.

So just we'll stick with what you're asking.

Where do I think? I don't, I don't expect that you're gonna get bombshell revelations coming out of a federal search on this.

I just don't think so.

Uh, federal agencies have a long history of resistance on this.

And, and not only that, it's entirely possible that there could be a, a honest search of federal records that doesn't turn up, uh, what we're looking for.

Yeah.