He was the guy that ran-

Ricky Carney, who ran Fitzroy Lodge as well, who was Johnny's trainer.

I knew both men.

Two men for John and for me that actually guided us.

Going to a boxing club's not about becoming a champion.

It's bec- You find something else, you know? And these men, in a very cold, dry way, you know, they never give you an inch.

They only say what needs to be said.

And you had just been expelled.

Um, do you feel like there's a certain rhythm that you have to catch onto in a Guy Ritchie project?

No, not really.

Um, it's [laughs] it's a good question because, you know, you kinda find if you're in a show that you can go along with everyone else's speed and the way, their rhythm of speaking.

It's a big mistake, that.

Becomes like a poem, you know? You don't want that.

So for me is I leave that to the editor, and I leave that to Guy.

The thing about doing a second series, and not that I've had that much experience about it, but, um, the first one was so good, and I really enjoyed watching the first one, that you think, you hear horror stories about the second series that's become flat and all that.

No.

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Um, did you re- when did you realize it was a smash, and did it feel good knowing that you're involved in a b- in a big smash hit? Well, it, it's a first really for me, because the stuff that I've done before, you know, is usually s- something with a social thing to say, you know- Mm ...

like Lil' Baby Mouth.

Um, Sexy Beast, when we...

That is a film, it's different from this.

This is a series.

But Sexy Beast didn't really hit it in, in England, in Britain.

[laughs]

And I don't mean it as flimsily as it sounds, but is it weird to be not dressed like that for most of this? Like, does it do anything weird to your head?

You know, it takes away a lot of aggravation, I've got to be honest with you, but they must have spent a lot of money on the budget for my costume in the first series and thought they could afford it this time.

But I don't know, it's something quite freeing about that, you know, not being all done up in the gear, you know, and having a nice cravat on and a jacket on and all that kind of stuff, just to be sitting there and be powerful.

you know yeah the great thing as well is is a sort of a vulnerability about being naked in a way you know it's when you're most vulnerable i guess you know and you know he's having some problems it seems in this series you know with uh yeah some things whether it's in his mind or whether it's actually there so i think it works i haven't seen it yet but i think it probably works very well you know

Because it was banned and stuff, yeah.

Yeah, back in the day.

I mean, at the time when I was making the film, I didn't understand and I didn't realise what the implications of making it was.

I was a kid, you know, and I was just happy to make the film, I suppose.

some days you get there and you've got the adrenaline pumping it's kind of your character and your lead in that and and and i think then you're you're full of the fucking testosterone it's a

confidence as well it's so you know you haven't always got that confidence but you gotta dig deep sometimes to find the confidence and get over it if you have anxiety about something you're doing you know and And if you can find that, if you can control that and then start to think, just take a step back for a minute and just think about it.

Slow it down, you know.

For me, it's about being comfortable,

Let's go all the way there.

Yeah, it's the intelligence of him, you know, and that kind of a man that does his own work.

Now, I don't know how he does his own work.

He might just do it by sitting in a chair and a cup of coffee and things enter his head.

And well, speaking of eccentric and speaking of a cut above, Ray, how much fun is it to play a gangster who seems to run the criminal underworld remotely from a bathrobe and a cigar in a luxury open air prison?

It's quite surreal, isn't it? You know, it's...

I had to give that some thought when I first started, you know, because it didn't register as true, you know.

So I had to have a meeting with Guy, and then once, as Giancarlo was saying, about the politics and the hierarchy of what Britain is and where it comes from and the business side of things and what you create, it's kind of different from any kind of villain I've played before in the way of the... trying to project that you have emotion when you don't, you know, the way you manipulate people in the way that you make them feel at ease, but at any minute you could wipe them out, you know.

So it's kind of a different way.

Like you said, it's kind of a thinking man's kind of way of going about the business rather than just a gun and being brutal, you know.

So what was it like developing those scenes opposite Kaya Scodelario?

Well, for me, it was a pretty easy connection with me and Kaya.

They...

[laughs]

[laughs]

And we, we... [laughs] And done the thing, and my mum and dad come and see it, and I thought they, they probably thought I was a little rascal or whatever.

Yeah.

And I thought, "Oh, oh, he's...

Everyone's laughing at what I'm doing," and all that kind of stuff.

Mm.