a great question.

When you're an LGBTQ person, when you belong to the LGBTQ community, you grow up knowing that you're different.

You grow up knowing that you're not like everybody else, but you also grow up knowing that it's unsafe to share why you don't feel like you're like everyone else.

For me, the way that I tried to deflect from people noticing that I was not like everyone else was to use humor.

I would often make myself the butt of a joke using a lot of self-deprecating humor.

But I also was an overachiever.

And when you when you're an overachiever, when all you're doing is thinking of the next thing to work on the next award to win the next, you know, goal to obtain.

So, Murav, I want to ask, what are the hidden emotional costs of leadership that nobody really prepares people for?

Mm-hmm.

And it took me a few minutes to understand what she wanted, but she was looking for me to out myself, um, to her.

And I was so, I was so uncomfortable and so caught off guard, and the, and again, this was before the previous story I just told you.

So I was really trying to keep this identity under wraps, and finally, I just broke.

Um, and I just said, "Yes, I'm gay.

Yes, the person you talked to last night is my husband." And in the moment that I'm sharing this with her, I'm going through a full-on anxiety attack, so I'm sweating profusely and all of the things.

And I just remember it.

Yeah.

How did that experience fundamentally change the way you lead both yourself and others?

Yes.

So I attempted suicide when I was 19.

I was attending college and I was a first-generation college student.

I was dealing with issues related to sexual orientation.

I hadn't yet come out as being a gay man.

And I was struggling and I just felt that life would be better if I wasn't in it.

So throughout your career and journey, what would you say has been your hardest moments

So just tell us a bit about that.

That happened back in 2005.

I was 35 years old.

What happened is that, uh, the company I was working for was going through a merger at the time, and so we were busy and I had achieved what I thought at that point in my life a pretty good level of success.

I was an assistant vice president.

I had a team of people working for me.

Uh, I loved what I was doing, and I felt as though at that stage in my life what I defined as accomplishment that I had done, that I was doing what I was supposed to be doing for someone at that age.

This isn't great." So tell us, when did you start to say, "Okay, there's an issue here"? Because what I wanna get onto is how you've really overcome this, right? Basically, I'm gonna take this and I'm gonna talk about it and I'm gonna own it, right? Uh, when was the point where you realized there is something that goes on and it's having not just an emotional, uh, toll, but a physical toll as well, and how'd you get on top of it?