Yeah, yeah.

So it's, it's not, right? It's...

And I also wanna pull back and, and just also note that the whole framework of real self-care is based on the idea of the concept of eudaimonic wellbeing, which is probably not new to you or to your listeners.

But just as a recap, eudaimonic wellbeing says that a well-lived life is one in which your activities and your behaviors are aligned with what's most important to you, with your purpose.

And there's tons of research out there that shows that folks who are able to identify and name their values and their purpose and feel that their life is, for the most part, aligned with those things, not 100% because no one's perfect, but right, mostly in that direction, they have better mental health outcomes.

They have better physical health outcomes.

And this is in contrast to hedonic wellbeing.

Yeah

Can you just explain that a little bit more for people who might not know what that means?

Yeah.

So when we say intellectualizing, what we are referring to is a defense mechanism where you're thinking about the experience.

You're kind of trying to solve it.

You're using your problem-solving brain to explain it, but you're not actually feeling the experience and you're not embodying what you were going through.

So there's sort of a disconnect when this happens where your brain is processing it at kind of a high level, but your body's not totally connected to what's going on in your brain.

And this is a common defense mechanism, especially for folks who are, like we said, perfectionistic, Type A, high achieving.

And then something you talked about in that article, too, is, like, finding meaning in the mistakes, and I'm wondering if you could speak to that a little bit, too, about, like, how do we find meaning in our mistakes, and can that help us reconcile sometimes when we, when we do mess up?

Yeah

... stays commercial, then there's no chance of changing anything because it's all about buying more and consumerism.

Whereas when self-care becos- becomes something that is personal, when you're actually looking at how do I live my life and how do I spend my time, then it has a chance of actually changing things.

So in Real Self-Care, I talk about how I had a patient who she had had two kids previously, um, and her husband had never taken a paternity leave.

He worked in tech.

It was always, like, very small companies and there was never, like, space for leave.

She got pregnant with her third baby and she was like, "I can't do this alone again.

in making you have to think of the burden.

Mm-hmm.

That means something different.

And this part was really fascinating to me, the other lineage or place that self-care was used was actually in psychiatry, shockingly.

In the 1950s, psychiatrists started using the word on locked inpatient units for the decisions that patients, involuntary patients, could make in their lives, like, while they were on the unit.

So, picking out your clothes, what are you gonna eat, what exercise are you gonna do? And I just thought that was so fascinating because on both sides, like, if we get back to what is real self-care, it's about...

even in this world that is terrible, that is, like, stacking so much against us where your choices are limited, what is the kernel of agency that you have?

Yeah.

Yes.

I am worried about our country." Pooja, what are you hearing from your patients? What are they doing to develop this sense of self-efficacy in their lives?

So, I, I'm in Austin, Texas, but my patients actually are in Washington, D.C.

I, I practice virtually in my practice.

And so, my patients are in it, you know.

A lot of them work in the government or, you know, for different government agencies.

And what we've been talking a lot about is now is the time to ground in your relationships, to develop really strong community bonds, to stay connected to the people in your life that matter, so small things, small things.

I have a patient who started going to her, her neighborhood.

It- it might not seem obvious that we benefit from being in the company of other people but how specifically does finding and building community in chaotic times benefit us?