Project On Government Oversight

Journalists, academics, and think tank experts have, with rare exceptions, perpetuated the problem by repeating official numbers that don't come close to telling the full story.

Data shows that the budget was already between $1.5 trillion and $1.8 trillion in the last full fiscal year, 2025, as detailed by a recent Project on Government Oversight, or POGO, report I co-authored.

Trump's request would add another $781 billion, bringing the potential total to at least $2.581 trillion in 2027.

The troubling revelation that the government is misleading the public and effectively hiding hundreds of billions in military spending reflects the out-of-control nature of the Pentagon budget.

And that's why I've asked Don Bell to come share some thoughts with us.

He's policy counsel there at the Constitution Project, at the Project on Government Oversight.

You can check out their website, pogo.org. Don, thanks for making time for us.

Thanks for having me.

But Don, I appreciate the time.

Great work.

Uh, I hope folks will check out the website pogo.org, the Project On Government Oversight, Don Bell Policy Council there at the Constitution Project.

Don, thanks so much.

Now, it's, it's, uh...

The article is written by CounterPunch, but actually is based on a study, uh, that was done by the Project on Government Oversight, uh, which we, we know and remember from when you were on The Hill.

We were friendly with them.

We had Winslow Wheeler, uh, from POGO, come over and give a talk on one of the Thursday lunches.

"Long before Trump took office, US taxpayers spent far more on the Pentagon and its wars than most know.

For decades, Congress, the White House, and the Pentagon have hidden the military's true cost through the little-known bureaucratic practices and budgeting tricks.

Um, uh, data shows the budget was already between 1.5 and 1.8 trillion in the last fiscal year, 2025, as detailed by a recent Project on Government Oversight report I co-authored," says David Vine.

"Trump's request would add another 781 billion, bringing the total, potential total to at least $2.581 trillion by 2027." It's hard to imagine, Dr.

The report calculates a cost exchange ratio on interceptors of roughly 106 to 1.

Independent watchdogs like the Project on Government Oversight did their own arithmetic and actually put it at 131 to 1 against the drones.

This is the ultimate failure of a fast kill chain lacking a judgment chain.

The system asked, can we hit this drone? The A.I.

Quote, "In theory, you want members of Congress and their staff to be going into the field and learning something, and maybe investigating something, getting some up close and personal understanding of the issue that they're supposed to be legislating on.

That's probably a good use of time in a lot of cases," said Dylan Hedtler-Gaudette, uh, the director of government affairs in, uh, at the Project on Government Oversight, a nonpartisan independent watchdog based in Washington.

Quote, "But what they end up being, or at least what they look like, is just a taxpayer-funded vacation to exotic locations," he said.

Quote, "You've got the Ferrari racetrack that you get to play around on, or the Louis Vuitton gift bag you might be getting in Milan.

And here to share some thoughts about the e- [laughs] epic public service announcement that seems to be getting a lot of bipartisan criticism, I've asked Joe Spielberger to come share some thoughts with us.

Joe's the senior policy counsel there at the Project On Government Oversight, POGO.

You can check out their website, pogo.org. Joe, thanks for making time for us.

Thanks for having me on, Rick.

George Knapp, investigative journalist specializing in UAP documentation.

Senior policy counsel for the Project on Government Oversight, PIOGO.

Volume of information and evidence.

First-hand military incident logs.

But those have sort of fallen by the wayside, and nobody really talks about those.

and then last what you talk about which is sort of civil society people like you also i am on the board of the project on government oversight which has been for the last 40 years one of those non-government organizations that is focused specifically on trying to make government better and has been sort of a friend of the igs throughout their history

John, I'll get you out of here on this, and I would urge people to read your piece from the Brennan Center for Justice.

We will make that available in the show notes, and to reach out to your organization for the coverage that they have in this space.

Some analysts say that combination creates risks that traditional forecasting tools don't present.

My guests are Virginia Burger and Janice Luong of the Project on Government Oversight.

Janice and Virginia, it is great to have you on the show again together this time.

We've got an important topic to talk about, so thanks for joining me.

And I think we will be hearing a little bit more on how this will progress in December.

So it will be interesting to see how this will play out as this is one of the first enforcement cases of insider trading concerning prediction markets.

Virginia Burger is a senior defense policy analyst at the Center for Defense Information at the Project on Government Oversight, and Janice Luong is a policy analyst at POGO's Effective and Accountable Government team.

Virginia, let me come back to you.