Production

That's an arbitrary goal.

The second one, though, is the intentional reduction of consumption and production and the way that is planned democratically for the sake of, you know, creaturely well-being.

And I think the critics of degrowth, you know, they seize on a term that we admit is not a great term.

If I was in the meeting, I would put my hand up and say, I don't think we should do this one, but I wasn't there and they did it.

I think when it comes to degrowth, if you boil it down to those two pieces and you then put that back toward critics of degrowth, a good faith critic is probably a degrowth or even though they are mad about that term, it's like to not be.

And if you were to invert those two points, you'd be like, OK, so you think that growth arbitrarily is a good goal for society? No left wing person would say that makes no sense at all.

And secondly, you think that we should just not plan our economies and increase our consumption and production? That's also something no left-wing person would agree with.

So I think it's true that degrowth is doing something a little bit different than your standard socialist discourse.