Phoenix Program

We don't know if that's true.

But, and that has to do with Phoenix Program and that kind of stuff.

But also, beyond the contract, uh, killer side of it, we like 99% sure with Philip Arthur Thompson he was a contract killer with CIA.

It also is now appearing that that's, that might be the case with, uh, R.C. Hoesch, um, if R.C. Hoesch's claims are true.

[laughs]

Yes, there are a lot of allegations of, uh, what Shackley was doing over there in Operation Phoenix, which was, you know, involved in all that.

Next thing you know, we'll be, we'll be fighting on the moon for those sweet, uh, moon mushrooms [laughs] that will-

Oh

Lionel

And by the way, we know those exist, right? Not just Thomas Nerit with the Navy, but I mean, the Phoenix program was explicitly that on record.

We all know that now.

and Jeff both completely deny any such abuse.

We don't know that Jeff was in the Phoenix program, but he was stationed at the same base where another Phoenix program assassin came out of, namely Gary Heidnik.

occurred.

The way Jeff turned out and the crimes he committed was all a freak occurrence.

Thus, even though I was later to make light of the story, it is clear to me now that the act itself betrayed a strong urge to control her.

But the US command had also suffered a public relations defeat as the massive Saigon press corps sent home sound, visual, and print image, print images that, cascading one over the other, somehow showed the American people a war they did not like.

Now, simultaneous with this ground war that we've been discussing, the CIA established a massive counter-guerrilla apparatus called the Phoenix Program.

Arriving in Saigon at the start of the war in late 1962, the CIA station chief, a man named Pierre Da Silva, found, quote, "The Viet Cong were monstrous in their application of torture and murder." So he adopted a doctrine of counter-terror through a centralized effort to, quote, "bring danger and death to the Viet Cong functionaries themselves." In Saigon, the program used sophisticated computer data banks to identify communist cadre for interrogation or elimination, producing a closed information loop, a feedback loop susceptible to the input of false data from anti-enemy counterintelligence.

Just look at this schematic diagram.

Okay, this is one of the, the Phoenix centers, one of those provincial interrogation centers in every one of the forty-plus provinces.

Okay? So they sent out operations by the provincial reconnaissance units that gain results.

You can see the results.

That gets feedback, combined with other intelligence, goes back into the Phoenix center and again, again.

Yeah, that's an important point, um, yeah.

I'm glad you mentioned that because in Thailand at the time, there was a program called Operation Phoenix, and William Colby, who was later the CIA director, and who died mysteriously himself, but he was in charge of Operation Phoenix, and it was an assassination program.

And they assassinated, they say, some estimates were 40,000 people.

Uh, I think the US claims it was only, like, 21,000 people, but they were assassinating people throughout, uh, Vietnam, North Vietnam, South Vietnam, and Southeast Asia, and they were based in Thailand.

And that's, that's not just advancing age and me being an absent-minded writer.

I can't remember if we covered the Phoenix program or not in a dedicated episode or episodes, but I know we've discussed it.

The Phoenix program was highly effective for what it was tailored to do.

And once, interestingly, at the end of Operation Banner, if you allow, again, the... parallel analogy or comparative analysis.

Once the British security forces and special branch were able to develop intel, particularly within Belfast, but also within Mid Ulster, although not to the same degree, and identifying Republican cadres They began targeting them in a very effective capacity.

That was instrumental in bringing the IRA to the table, okay? And the infrastructure, the cadre infrastructure of the National Liberation Front was being irreparably damaged by the Phoenix program.

And to be clear, the Phoenix program, it wasn't born of foolishness and conceptual illiteracy of the sort that's Endemic today where some random guy is branded a terrorist and and then, you know, U.S. SWAT forces kick in his door and shoot him in the face or some some religious leader in Iran is randomly declared to be the final boss of of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps.

And then some IDF drone murders him.

kind of wild that even like normie websites have picked up on this.

Like were they actually just becoming serial killers in the Phoenix program? Well, it turns out, yes, the Phoenix program was a program to train serial killers to defeat the Viet Cong.

Um, But let me make sure that I'm right about that.

I haven't thought about a lot of this in several years.

Dear God

... and the, uh, strategist whose, uh, n- name is Colby, the son of the former, uh, CIA director, um, who did the Phoenix program, um, they have been changing American doctrine so that they could integrate conventional weapon- c- uh, tactical nuclear weapons with our conventional force structure.

And the reason, Colby says, to do that is so that a president using common sense would actually be able to use tactical nuclear weapons.

A- and I wanna remind everyone, and again, I, I knew he had the authority.

And, um, he's doing a great job.

Uh, the subject for tonight was mind control, and I think a lot of people thought, "Well, they're probably gonna talk about some of these old programs, you know? LSD when you're least expecting it." Some of the programs like the Phoenix Program, I will ask about that, but, you know, as I thought about this program before it started tonight, I thought if somebody can give me a better example of mind control than ISIS is doing on these people over here and over there in Britain, and they're doing it remotely with this produced stuff they've got.

If there's a better example of mind control out there, I don't know what it is.

And this one's pretty important.

[sighs] Okay, good.

Um, all right.

So what is or was the Phoenix program, and did it continue?

continue?Well, I mean, this, this, it's a very strange, uh, uh, thing.

So that was the great advantage we had at night, was the grenades.

One of, uh, one of my favorite stories is from a, a Phoenix Program guy [laughs] who told me how the, uh, Vietnamese would pull the pins on the hand grenades and then throw them to him.

They were helping him out by pulling the pin first.

[laughs]