Peter Wright

And nobody can figure this out.

And Peter Wright writes that famous book, Spycatcher.

And Lord Rothschild funds it.

And he keeps misdirecting him because he knows who all of the moles are.

There are some conspiracy theories that there were even more.

Peter Wright, a former counterintelligence official in Great Britain, got himself in some trouble by positing very publicly who the additional ones may have been.

He was wrong, by the way.

[laughs]

And I interviewed, by the way, at the end of his ... not the end of his life.

He went, uh, uh, unfortunately, got dementia, Peter Wright.

I interviewed him in Tasmania and his manager, Peter Murray, and he, he let, he let this loose, thinking it had to be Rothschild, right? So I had that in the book, by the way.

So, um, I, I knew what I was doing there, but Rothschild had conned him and Tess.

So I'm saying that Rothschild was responsible for holding back MI5 right up until his death in 1990, because you had the court case, you had all that.

They wanted to say Hollis was the man, he was the spy.

He wasn't the spy, and Peter Wright was furious about it.

He wanted to, to label somebody.

Blunt.

Well, if you're looking for some recommended reading on the Cambridge Spies, I heartily recommend Spycatcher by Peter Wright, who was the former assistant director of MI5, and he talks about, uh, investigating the Cambridge Five and them trying to find out how much information they'd given.

It's a really enlightening read, caused a real furore in the 1980s.

But anyway, James, speaking of drama, it's been a big one in terms of this reported plague outbreak, and Sophie covered it in quite some detail, what we were hearing in the early reports on Monday.

I mean, it's true of intelligence books.

When I wrote intelligence books, they would come down hard on a Peter Wright, but they would let things by people like me get through, even though it was came from often the same source.

So I think, uh, also maybe a new, more aggressive approach to these things because they realized never explain, never complain doesn't work.

Uh, who knows what the thinking is? Uh, but there's...