Peter Reinhart

And I think this is like where the snowball sort of started to get momentum behind the scenes.

And many of these bakers, y-you talk about Peter Reinhart and Jim Lahey and Chad and like all these kind of luminaries now, but they all are kind of described in relatively accessible terms and at, at stages when maybe they were a little bit more like the bakery down the corner than some of them are today.

I mean, like this guy, um, you know, Richard Hart, uh, who's-

Richard Hart, yes.