Peter Koenig

... that there's something being tied up in the numbers which is making it hard to maybe make that shift.

Well, absolutely, and that's the essence of all the work we're exploring and all the podcasts and coming back to Peter Koenig's work.

That's precisely the point.

And, and so when we're talking about budgeting, it's almost like we can't just take budgeting independently because as soon as I really look at budgeting from a life-centered point of view, I'm also asking about, well, where does my money come from, and does that bring me alive? And all of this stuff that I think I need to spend money on, like this holiday, da, da, actually, am I choosing the holidays that really bring us alive, or am I just doing it to keep up with the Joneses, or 'cause my kids have got the right thing to, you know, tell their friends at school? And then when I think about my future.

Yeah, when you talk, I feel like that's why we need more founder-led organizations.

Before you said source and for people who don't know you, there's a concept by Peter Koenig and the source is, correct me if I'm wrong, is the one who originated the idea for the project venture organization.

And if this is...

A founder-led organization, you can work with the person symbolizing the source in a way and get the buy-in for such a process, of course, and then keep everyone together in this whole process through the ups and downs and whatever throughout.