To build new renewable generation and firming to strengthen our national energy-

So Anthony Albanese created these new rules, and they went to the sort of energy ministers meetings, national cabinet.

As you said, Queensland and the Northern Territory, a lot of gas, and obviously in Queensland, coal as well.

Queensland, uh, owns a lot of its generation, so it's a little bit different to New South Wales and Victoria.

They said, you know, "We wanna be able to, uh, draw on our own natural resources.

Sure, w- we'll have renewables, but we don't want to have this mandate." What it's meant is it's a bit murky as to exactly how this is gonna play out.

All the big data center operators are saying, "Look, we're fully on board with the PM's vision." But if you do a bit more digging beneath the surface, what you see is this real mismatch between the data centers, the, the AI factories, which wanna come online in 12 months' time with these new factories.

How long has coal got?

Maybe you could just sort of tell me where's the name come from for a start, but what, what does Atlassian do? I mean, Canva I get.

Yeah.

Re- great, great question.

Uh, look, they've got a couple of, um, products, um, Jira and Confluence.

Again, not household names.

Um, but, um, what, what they do is they essentially allow companies, you know, big corporates, um, you know, blue chip, uh, clients and so on to be able to, uh, you know, effectively kind of manage, um, big projects, tasks, workflows throughout an entire company.

Essentially, what they were able to do was, um, you know, have different teams, different people all talking to each other and, you know, basically, uh, link it all up into a, into a single, um, product.

Mm

For those who aren't maybe that familiar with Atlassian, Perry, just describe what they are as a company, what they provide, what they're famous for, and just how successful they became.

Yeah, for sure.

One of the quite striking things is that the two products which they came out with in the early years, Jira and Confluence, are still their mainstay products in 2026.

They really struck gold.

Look, it's probably at the slightly more boring end of the tech scene.

It's essentially the sort of software that enables teams to plan, carry tasks through an organisation, delegate, put people in charge.

In real time, people can collaborate and so on.

The velvet

Um, Perry, I also wanna ask, how distracted did Mike become with his climate change obsession, and did that have an impact on the business?

Yeah, look, I, I think it's, um, sort of undeniable that, um, you know, Mike, uh, you know, who went off on, on a lot of escapades, um, climate crusader, um, AGL Energy, um, you know, one of the most famous ones, um, Sun Cable that, that John and I have written about.

This is the big, um, solar export project to Singapore that's-

Mm

... um, you know, still hasn't got off, um, off the ground.

Um, uh, he, you know, had, had to come out and start saying, "Yes, I'm still focused on my day job, um, and you know, it's...

I'm, I'm not getting distracted." I think the fact that he had to say that, um, was a worrying sign.

And from the sources we spoke to, um, Scott Farquhar, um, was certainly getting frustrated that, that Mike's, um, you know, time wasn't being focused solely on Atlassian.

What was happening?

Yeah, that, that, that was really interesting actually.

This was actually in 2019.

They'd had a falling out.

In the billionaire world, often there's counselors, there's advisors which work with these people, and there was an intervention of sorts for the two of them to go to California and spend some time with this Counselor Finkelstein.

And what came out of that is that Mike actually said that he was being bullied by Scott, which was, again, perhaps a little bit unexpected.

You know, obviously this was never documented.

What do you understand about why Scott Farquhar walked away?