Per Welinder

Well, it, the, the first few years of Birdhouse were pretty bleak.

In fact, I had a partner at the time, Per Welinder, who was also a pro skater, and he-- we had some heavy discussions, I would say within the third or fourth year of being in business, that we, we can't keep do- we can't keep cutting our salary, for one, but we definitely can't lose money.

Um, I got lucky that he had a business degree and he was able to, to keep it afloat.

And then when the X Games started, we saw an uptick of interest, which actually brought us into finally being profitable around '97, '98.