The second one was quite opposite where it said that machine is not going to be the advantage and it's more strategy, right? So looking back, which Patrick is wrong or rather how this changed over a period of time?

So it's an interesting way of thinking about the two books.

I haven't thought of it that way myself.

I don't necessarily think of them as being conflicting opinions.

I think it's more of the evolution of what has happened in the market.

So I started writing about the inevitability of AI in 2017.

And it was because if you were working in the space at the time, this can be no surprise to anybody, Google was pushing automation into their platform and starting their, what has been, you know, 10 plus years of them trying to get advertisers and brands to be more AI forward.

What do you think is going to be their job now? The best marketers who had built their entire career based on this arbitrage, where do you think they are going to fit in going

I think you could have something if you're really going to be focused on that and not use it as like a little side project.

There's layers of value that you get out of this to get to a point where you're understanding saturation curves.

and diminishing returns and being able to turn this into real forecasting, it's going to take you a little while to get there.

And you need to educate yourself on how that stuff works.

I think the first time we really successfully ran this was for an e-commerce client.

And of the five channels that we had in there, one of them was PMAX and one of them was shopping.

And the in-platform reported return on ad spend was basically equal.

How about you, Patrick? Any big takeaways?

I

remember.

I started writing about AI in 2017.

And the reason I did that was because, so my industry, right? Like the robots were coming for our job long before they were coming for everyone else's job.

And so I have a lot of empathy for the anxiety that the broader market is feeling right now around the state of AI.

But I've also been living it for almost 10 years.

So in 2016, really, 2015, 2016, Google started... feeding a lot of AI into their platform and promoting their AI driven tools as a better way of running advertising on Google.

Is it a. response like hey pat you know are you open on monday at three or whatever is it an automatic response email i mean it's not really you