Patricia Benner

And we had our conference annually drew in like 200 plus people.

We had a lot of great speakers, Betty Farrell, Carol Taylor, Pat Benner.

So really amazing keynote speakers.

And then I started that pulmonary palliative clinic that ended up becoming, there wasn't one nationally and that ended up becoming a model.

In the days when I was trained, which sounds like forever ago, but it really wasn't.

You know, in the days of Benner, when we were moving from novice to expert, for instance, right? In the days of ADPAI, we're now in a clinical judgment theory, right? We used to be able to rely on ourselves and all of our senses.

to help us get to the gestalt.

And now we're sort of relying on systems to get us there, on the wisdom of systems.