Pat Ogden

... you know-

Pat, Pat Ogden is, uh, she has a fantastic book.

Um, Janina-

Okay

Okay

...

Pat Ogden is the primary-

Okay

And then my moral theme teacher said, you should see this guy, as Peter Melchiorri said, you should see Peter Levine.

So I said, Okay, so off I went to see Peter Levine, had a session, blew my mind, and I became, Peter became my therapist, my teacher, supervisor, just, I became a protege of his for a few years, and that led me also then into Hakomi Bodywork, which, that was when Pat Ogden, who was one of the original group of people who were spreading Hikomi, she took it more to work with body work and then more to work with trauma.

So that's sensory motor psychotherapy now is what the name of her new work is.

It used to be Hikomi Body Work.

I mean, you know, s- somatic therapy, um, you know, that...

the, the whole kind of Peter Levine, Pat Ogden kind of movement, um, it wasn't available in the '90s.

We, we remembered we had a body about 20 years ago psychologically.

[laughs] And so it becomes, yeah, it, it's critical that, that it, it's, it's...

This episode is more about internalized patriarchy, internalized misogyny, internalized capitalism in the female body and how those things play out amongst women.

I'm going to be a bit focused today on the healing or helping professions, but this episode is for everyone because if you're listening, I'm assuming you've probably purchased a book or listened to a book with Gabor Mate on it or in it, but maybe don't know the names of someone like Judith Herman or Pat Ogden even.

That right there, that absence of recognition of our female elders is really what I'm going to be exploring today.

And that is across professions, not just localized in therapy.

And I, I was really moved by this when it was said to me, but the longer I have practiced clinical psychotherapy, I get it.

So Pat Ogden is a mentor of mine.

And she says to me one time when I'm talking to Sean, I don't believe in evil.

I'm like, well, what do you mean you don't believe in evil? And it's just like, yeah, like people get to these places because their nervous systems get so trapped in threat.

But, but most of my work for the last few years has been, um, inspired by coming to terms with my own childhood trauma, and it's very interesting how my work with trauma in dogs has helped me to personally to do that.

But the grounding particularly is a, uh, is very well known in human trauma studies that take somatic psychology seriously, right? Ariel Schwartz, Pat Ogden, um, the whole Hakomi method, psychotherapy, uh, people who take...

Because Bessel van der Kolk, probably the world's preeminent trauma specialist, he's a psychiatrist in Boston, Massachusetts, here in the US, as he famously said in the title of his book, the body keeps the score, right? Trauma and actually most difficult behavior issues [laughs] for us humans and dogs is held in the body.

Yeah.

This was 30 years ago.

It was psychoanalytic treatment and the revolution of science and body-based treatments and Bessel's work and other seminal works on trauma in the body, Pat Ogden, Janina Fisher.

There is no healing trauma from the neck up.

You can talk about the things that happened to you.

they started thinking about working with the body.

And Peter Levine did this.

Pat Ogden did this, right? Working with Vietnam vets.

And what they discovered was that the body wants to complete the action that it wasn't able to complete.