But is it a work ethic thing? Is it pure intelligence? Back in those days, what was the edge that you could have from an engineering perspective?

I think it's a little bit of everything.

I think it's definitely work ethic.

It's definitely a will to want to actually get everything perfect on the day.

When I was at McLaren, so I went there in 93, again, to design and work on their active car.

I mean, that was an absolutely fantastic thing.

And it was, well, if I look at that now, there was, I think, five of us that were, I was doing the electronics and the control systems and a lot of the, if you like, all the ride analysis and all the, if you like, the control system tuning.

why actually is that? I don't quite understand.