[laughs]

And what does that mean, you know? Well, if I, I'm alone with my thoughts.

Well, you know, if you're the sort of parent that does meditation or prayer, you could explore that with your child and start to explain how that works, [laughs] you know? And I'm sure that, that you probably did anyway if it's, as, as I said, at the top of all this, part of your, part of your daily life.

I mean, if that's, that's it.

But you know, uh, a, a lot of people go, go through the day, um, you know, trying to get their work done.

And if you have more than one child, although even one child is a lot to take care of [laughs] while, you know, while, while you're homeschooling.

But it's okay to say, "Figure it out," you know? Or if they ask for help, "Oh, here.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

Yes.

The birthrate's been going down since the late '70s, you know, and early '80s.

I mean, [chuckles] I mean, John Holt wrote about it in the first edition of "Teach Your Own," which came out in 1981.

He's like, "Why are we building these huge, huge schools instead of like, doing like they..." You know, his, um, a model for him was Denmark, where they had neighborhood schools.

And, um, you know, which my friends in Denmark say is no longer the case, that they're actually becoming more Americanized in their approach to education, unfortunately, focusing more on test scores than on the, the, the community building.

But, you know, um, what, what's interesting about that, uh, and my friend Aaron Falbel, uh, wrote his dissertation at MIT on, on, on the free school.

It's called Free School in '70, I think it was called.

[laughs]

... introduce yourself a little bit and tell us what happened? [chuckles]

Um, all right.

Uh, briefly, uh, you know, my, my biography, uh, in unschooling is, um...

Let me see.

So it's been 42 years that I've been involved in unschooling.

I got started in 1981 when I joined the-- volunteered at the, at Holt Associates, uh, the company founded by John Holt in 1977.

Started off as an education consulting company, and then it quickly became a publishing company, uh, when he started the magazine, "Growing Without Schooling." And, um, John, uh, to, you know, to put it in perspective, uh, uh, you know, John's story, uh, ver- was that he was a, a very famous, uh, teacher and author in the 1960s and early '70s who was advocate...

How about you? How did it, how did that look in your life?