PaintShop Pro

And I just had never kind of thought about that desktop publishing.

You and I probably remember back in the days, what was it, PaintShop Pro or whatever? I mean, just the fact that you could create something like that.

And even for the consumer side, and I worked at some newspapers back in the day when I was in high school too, you know, just at the very beginnings of PageMaker Pro, you know, all the stuff that we were using back then was just amazing because my dad was a printer.

And I remember we would do like we would have to we'd have special machines you'd have to do the type and then you'd have stencils and i mean just all the stuff i just wow i mean just the fact that john turnus would would kind of hearken back to that was good uh there's just one quote that that jumped out at me quickly is uh i forget exactly the question that he asked but i just i could i wrote this down because i couldn't get this out of my mind john says people often mistake technology for product I'm like, okay, I don't know how that makes sense.

Mm-hmm.

Some of them would say, um, PaintShop Pro or Photoshop or, uh, JavaScript.

And so what I was trying to do is to make sure that I'm aligning the things that they're naturally curious about to what they're actually doing.

Yeah.