Ophites

trying them to attempt our commandery, which is the word self.

So he compared church sculpture gems, coffers, and inscriptions from different contexts, then read them through an Ophite Gnostic framework.

So you have other guys who challenged Hammer.

So yeah, a lot of scholars are really... seem to be very like irate at first you know i get that vibe like why are you like why are you talking about this you know so but you know here we are talking about it right

In the next place, he determines even the number mentioned by those who deliver over the seal, as that, quote, of seven angels who attach themselves to both sides of the soul of the dying body, the one party being named angels of light, the others archontics and he asserts that the ruler of those named archontics is termed the accursed god then laying hold of the expression he assails not without reason those who venture to use such language and on that account we entertain a similar feeling of indignation with those who censure such individuals if indeed there exist any who call the god of the jews who sends rain and thunder and who is the creator of this world and the god of moses and of the cosmogony which he records an accursed divinity celsus however appears to have had in view in employing these expressions not a rational object but one of a most irrational kind arising out of his hatred towards us which is so unlike a philosopher for his aim was that those who are unacquainted with our customs should on perusing his treatise at once assail us as if we called the noble creator of this world an accursed divinity he appears to me indeed to have acted like those jews who when christianity began to be first preached scattered abroad false reports of the gospel such as that quote christians offered up an infant in sacrifice and partook of its flesh and again that the professors of christianity wishing to do the works of darkness used to extinguish the lights in their meetings and each one to have sexual intercourse with any woman whom he chanced to meet end quote these calumnies have long exercised although unreasonably an influence over the minds of very many leading those who are aliens to the gospel to believe that christians are men of such a character and even at the present day they mislead some and prevent them from entering even into the simple intercourse of conversation with those who are christians with some such object as this in view does celsus seem to have been actuated when he alleged that christians term the creator an accursed divinity in order that he who believes these charges of his against us should if possible arise and exterminate the christians as the most impious of mankind Confusing, moreover, things that are distinct, he states also the reason why the god of the Mosaic cosmology is termed accursed, asserting that, "...such is his character, and worthy of execration in the opinion of those who so regard him, inasmuch as he pronounced a curse upon the serpent, who introduced the first human beings to the knowledge of good and evil." now he ought to have known that those who have espoused the cause of the serpent because he gave good advice to the first human beings and who go far beyond the titans and giants of fable and are on this account called ophites are so far from being christians that they bring accusations against jesus to as great a degree as celsus himself and they do not admit any one into their assembly until he has uttered maldictions against jesus see then how irrational is the procedure of celsus who in his discourse against the christians represents as such those who will not even listen to the name of jesus or admit even that he was a wise man or a person of virtuous character what then could evince greater folly or madness not only on the part of those who wish to derive their name from the serpent as the author of good but also on the part of celsus who thinks that the accusations with which the ophites are charged are chargeable also against the christians long ago indeed that greek philosopher who preferred a state of poverty and who exhibited the pattern of a happy life showing that he was not excluded from happiness although he was possessed of nothing termed himself a cynic while these impious wretches as not being human beings whose enemy the serpent is but as being serpents pride themselves upon being called ophites from the serpent which is an animal most hostile to and greatly dreaded by man and boast of one euphrates as the introducer of these unhollowed opinions in the next place as if it were the christians whom he was calumniating he continues his accusations against those who term the god of moses and of his law an accursed divinity and imagining that it is the christians who so speak he expresses himself thus what could be more foolish or insane than such senseless wisdom for what blunder has the jewish lawgiver committed and why do you accept by means as you say of a certain allegorical and typical method of interpretation the cosmogony which he gives in the law of the jews while it is with unwillingness o most impious man that you give praise to the creator of the world who promised to give them all things who promised to multiply their race to the ends of the earth and to raise them up from the dead with the same flesh and blood and who gave inspiration to their prophets and again you slander him when you feel the force of such considerations indeed you acknowledge that you worship the same god but when your teacher jesus and the jewish moses give contradictory decisions you seek another god instead of him and the father now by such statements this illustrious philosopher celsus distinctly slanders the christians asserting that when the jews press them hard they acknowledge the same god as they do but that when jesus legislates differently from moses they seek another god instead of him now whether we are conversing with the jews or are alone with ourselves we know of only one and the same god whom the jews also worshipped of old time and still profess to worship as god and we are guilty of no impiety towards him We do not assert, however, that God will raise men from the dead with the same flesh and blood as has been shown in the preceding pages, for we do not maintain that the natural body which is sown in corruption and in dishonor and in weakness will rise again such as it was sown.

On such subjects, however, we have spoken at adequate length in the foregoing pages.

He next returns to the subject of the seven ruling demons, whose names are not found among Christians, but who, I think, are accepted by the Ophites.

We found, indeed, that in the diagram which on their account we procured a sight of, the same order was laid down as that which Celsus has given.

Celsus says that, quote, the goat was shaped like a lion, end quote.

Same stuff.

We'll do a couple more, but he gets into Marcion, the Marcionites, the Ophites who worship, the Ophites worship the serpent So some of these people are actually like literal Satanists, right? Sorinthus, another Egyptian Gnostic.

The world was not made by God, but by a fallen power.

That is the supreme power of this universe.

In the next place, he determines even the number mentioned by those who deliver over the seal as that, quote, of seven angels who attach themselves to both sides of the soul of the dying body, the one party being named angels of light, the others archontics and he asserts that the ruler of those named archontics is termed the accursed god then laying hold of the expression he assails not without reason those who venture to use such language and on that account we entertain a similar feeling of indignation with those who censure such individuals if indeed there exist any who call the god of the jews who sends rain and thunder and who is the creator of this world and the god of moses and of the cosmogony which he records an accursed divinity celsus however appears to have had in view in employing these expressions not a rational object but one of a most irrational kind arising out of his hatred towards us which is so unlike a philosopher for his aim was that those who are unacquainted with our customs should on perusing his treatise at once assail us as if we called the noble creator of this world an accursed divinity he appears to me indeed to have acted like those jews who when christianity began to be first preached scattered abroad false reports of the gospel such as that christians offered up an infant in sacrifice and partook of its flesh and again that the professors of christianity wishing to do the works of darkness used to extinguish the lights in their meetings and each one to have sexual intercourse with any woman whom he chanced to meet these calumnies have long exercised although unreasonably an influence over the minds of very many leading those who are aliens to the gospel to believe that christians are men of such a character and even at the present day they mislead some and prevent them from entering even into the simple intercourse of conversation with those who are christians with some such object as this in view does celsus seem to have been actuated when he alleged that christians term the creator an accursed divinity in order that he who believes these charges of his against us should if possible arise and exterminate the christians as the most impious of mankind Confusing, moreover, things that are distinct, he states also the reason why the god of the Mosaic cosmology is termed accursed, asserting that, "...such is his character, and worthy of execration in the opinion of those who so regard him, inasmuch as he pronounced a curse upon the serpent, who introduced the first human beings to the knowledge of good and evil." now he ought to have known that those who have espoused the cause of the serpent because he gave good advice to the first human beings and who go far beyond the titans and giants of fable and are on this account called ophites are so far from being christians that they bring accusations against jesus to as great a degree as celsus himself and they do not admit any one into their assembly until he has uttered maldictions against jesus see then how irrational is the procedure of celsus who in his discourse against the christians represents as such those who will not even listen to the name of jesus or admit even that he was a wise man or a person of virtuous character what then could evince greater folly or madness not only on the part of those who wish to derive their name from the serpent as the author of good but also on the part of celsus who thinks that the accusations with which the ophites are charged are chargeable also against the christians long ago indeed that greek philosopher who preferred a state of poverty and who exhibited the pattern of a happy life showing that he was not excluded from happiness although he was possessed of nothing termed himself a cynic while these impious wretches as not being human beings whose enemy the serpent is but as being serpents pride themselves upon being called ophites from the serpent which is an animal most hostile to and greatly dreaded by man and boast of one euphrates as the introducer of these unhollowed opinions in the next place as if it were the christians whom he was calumniating he continues his accusations against those who term the god of moses and of his law an accursed divinity and imagining that it is the christians who so speak he expresses himself thus what could be more foolish or insane than such senseless wisdom for what blunder has the jewish lawgiver committed and why do you accept by means as you say of a certain allegorical and typical method of interpretation the cosmogony which he gives and the law of the jews while it is with unwillingness o most impious man that you give praise to the creator of the world who promised to give them all things who promised to multiply their race to the ends of the earth and to raise them up from the dead with the same flesh and blood and who gave inspiration to their prophets and again you slander him when you feel the force of such considerations indeed you acknowledge that you worship the same god but when your teacher jesus and the jewish moses give contradictory decisions you seek another god instead of him and the father now by such statements this illustrious philosopher celsus distinctly slanders the christians asserting that when the jews press them hard they acknowledge the same god as they do but that when jesus legislates differently from moses they seek another god instead of him now whether we are conversing with the jews or are alone with ourselves we know of only one and the same god whom the jews also worshipped of old time and still profess to worship as god and we are guilty of no impiety towards him We do not assert, however, that God will raise men from the dead with the same flesh and blood as has been shown in the preceding pages, for we do not maintain that the natural body which is sown in corruption and in dishonor and in weakness will rise again such as it was sown.

On such subjects, however, we have spoken at adequate length in the foregoing pages.

He next returns to the subject of the seven ruling demons, whose names are not found among Christians, but who, I think, are accepted by the Ophites.

We found, indeed, that in the diagram which on their account we procured a sight of, the same order was laid down as that which Celsus has given.

Celsus says that, quote, the goat was shaped like a lion, end quote.

He's incredibly powerful.

And in some ways, if he's executing judgment, he's almost supplanting God in his own way, right? So the Ophites.

This is the one I really want to get to.

They were a group that ancient Christian heresiologists associated with serpent symbolism, hence being called Ophites.

Oh, I thought it was just you watching a battle and being like, oh, fight.

Yeah, nice.

Who thinks he's enforcing cosmic order but is actually imprisoning humanity.

Sound like an interpretation we're used to.

And then they say their Greek name is the name for serpent is Ophus.

So they're called the Ophites or the Anahasseni.

And they are priests and they're around Asia Minor.

And they're the first people who come up with the Gospel of Thomas and the stuff about like people being hermaphrodites, all that stuff.