Oleksandra Matviichuk

But if Ukraine can't intercept those drones, then they can hunt their targets freely.

Quoting Ukrainian human rights activist Oleksandra Matviichuk on the subject, "Without that protection, Russian drones will strike residential buildings, hospitals, and schools like targets in a shooting gallery." End quote.

[suspenseful music] Already compliant.

So Washington's message to Ukraine seems to be, "If you don't stop hitting Russian oil refineries, then we'll take away your ability to defend civilians." Moreover, Washington is taking away the tools Kyiv uses to defend its energy infrastructure with just weeks to go before the start of Ukraine's notoriously brutal winters.

My guest today, however, says that the UK can and should become a world leader in the prevention of atrocities, and that doing so is in our national interest.

But in a political climate that seems more insular than internationalist, is it realistic? On this episode of The Forecast, I'm joined by the Nobel Peace Prize laureate and member of the Standing Group on Atrocity Crimes, Oleksandra Matviichuk.

Oleksandra, welcome.

Thank you very much indeed for joining us.

It's not first time in the human history when we face with situation when the law doesn't work.

The Second World War was one of such example, and I still have a hope that with decisive action we will prevent this war to be more and more global, that we will show Putin that he would never succeed his goal to occupy the whole Ukraine and move further to attack next country, that we will able to restore legal order with a lower price than with a higher price.

Oleksandra Matviichuk, thank you very much indeed for your time.

Thank you for joining us.

You have to be very careful.

Uh, so I did an interview with Oleksandra Matviichuk, uh, the founder of, uh, Center for Civil Liberties.

So, so they won the only Nobel Peace Prize that Ukraine has.

Um, and so we sat down for coffee, um, uh, and did a couple of interviews.