North Vietnam

Tell me about what happens in the Gulf of Tonkin and how it would transform his approach to the war.

So in early August 1964, the American Navy is off the coast of North Vietnam supporting South Vietnamese commando secret activities inside Northern Vietnam and, and, and Johnson is well aware of this.

So there's a mission that takes place on the 2nd of August of 1964, and during that mission, the primary American warship supporting the South Vietnamese commandos, uh, comes under fire.

In response to that, the US deploys a second vessel to support more operations on the 4th of August, and then, and this is where it kinda gets interesting.

The weather is really bad on that day, and then according to the US Navy on site, on the 4th of August, the American vessels come under attack.

It turns out that there's no evidence that there ever was an actual North Vietnamese attack on that day, and having worked in the Vietnamese archives for, for 30 years, I, I have yet to come across anything suggesting that the North Vietnamese Navy did actually try anything against the American Navy on the 4th of-

What were they thinking was the attack?

A nervous radar operator, sonar operator.

That's a bit of a trite analogy.

But if we're looking at realistic optimism, The best person to describe that is actually an American called Jim Stockdale, who's sadly no longer with us, but he was a US Navy pilot in the Vietnam War and was held captive, was the longest held and highest ranking captive held by the North Vietnamese.

What Jim Stockdale did noticed was that in the Hanoi Hilton, where he was brutally held, some of the people who didn't survive were optimists.

And the ones who wouldn't survive out of the optimistic cadre were the unrealistic optimists, the people who would tell themselves that we're going to be home for Christmas, we're going to be home for Christmas, when there's absolutely zero evidence to support that or something equivalent to that.

So they put a 55-gallon drum of gasoline in the back of the helicopter and they had to pump the gas to keep the helicopter flying.

And when they saw the pilot, they flew down between two hills and And there were North Vietnamese soldiers on the top of both those hills shooting down at the helicopter.

So the bullets were coming through the roof of the helicopter, shut the helicopter down.

It didn't take much to shoot one down.

They gave her an AK-47.

and told her to guard this big, tall American man, big, huge American man.

And a North Vietnamese photographer took a picture of it, and now he is one of the people on the North Vietnamese postage stamps with a little bitty girl in an AK-47 guarding a big American man.

So it's a great story.

And the more I got into the story, the more I realized what a horrendous year that was.

I mean, I was a student in the 60s and we protested against things like the fact that our bombing on North Vietnam killed a thousand civilians a day, okay? People from Chesapeake now want to keep men out of the girls' bathroom.

To me, there's a huge difference between the stands that we took and some of the, I'm not sure, not so significant stands that are being taken today.

You know, I go back to William Faulkner's Nobel Prize acceptance speech where people have fights where nobody loses anything of value or wins anything of value.

They had to find something.

And it's laughable because the North Vietnamese, what they did to South Vietnam is unspeakable.

But the North Vietnam is unspeakable.

So this is where it becomes very, very difficult.

Soviet-made guns.

The M46 field gun, 130 millimeter, widely used by the North Vietnamese, supplied by the Soviets, killed a lot of Americans.

And that's just me speaking from personal experience.

But this problem, Howard, with both Russia and China, we're talking about China, so I try to be more specific regarding China.

JOINT RESOLUTION TO PROMOTE THE MAINTENANCE OF INTERNATIONAL PEACE AND SECURITY IN SOUTHEAST ASIA.

whereas naval units of the communist regime in vietnam in violation of the principles of the charter of the united nations and of international law have deliberately and repeatedly attacked united states naval vessels lawfully present in international waters and have thereby created a serious threat to international peace and whereas these attackers are part of deliberate and systematic campaign of aggression that the communist regime in north vietnam has been waging against its neighbors and the nations joined with them in the collective defense of their freedom and whereas the united states is assisting the peoples of southeast asia to protect their freedom and has no territorial military or political ambitions in that area but desires only that these people should be left in peace to work out their destinies in their own way Now therefore, be it resolved by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, that the Congress approves and supports the determination of the President, as Commander-in-Chief, to take all necessary measures to repel any armed attack against the forces of the United States, and to prevent further aggression.

section two the united states regards as vital to its national interests and to world peace the maintenance of international peace and security in southeast asia consonant with the constitution of the united states and the charter of the united nations and in accordance with its obligations under the southeast asia collective defense treaty The United States is, therefore, prepared, as the President determines, to take all necessary steps, including the use of armed force, to assist any member or protocol state of the Southeast Asian Collective Defense Treaty, requesting assistance in defense of its freedom.

Section 3 This resolution shall expire when the President shall determine that the peace and security of the area is reasonably assured by international conditions created by actions of the United Nations or otherwise, except that it may be terminated earlier by concurrent resolution of the Congress.

and Vietnam had to find something.

And it's laughable because the North Vietnamese, what they did to South Vietnam is unspeakable.

But the North Vietnam is unspeakable.

So this is where it becomes very, very difficult.