I think that's the bit that makes it even more complex because, you know, knowing where to put your time and energy because it's so, it's time consuming.

Yes, it is.

And also it's increasingly difficult, as we know, to stand out on socials.

So I really like what you said about this blend and then it becomes this almost self-fulfilling prophecy or this virtuous circle, doesn't it? of people finding you in one place following you in another place checking up on you so that you they know that you are who you say you are coming back sharing results and this is an ongoing thing that can so easily just drop off that's why accountability and support and all the things that are available out there are so important and it doesn't matter what level you're at I mean I still need accountability not for my own marketing but for different elements of business and I don't think there's any shame in that but You can shortcut your results by getting help from someone, can't you? To find out, okay, how do I work out what frame of mind my people are in? I call it go detective mode, which stems from being a brand strategist in agencies and having to spend half my life on the road speaking to people.

Really, genuinely being able to go deep and put yourself in your customer's shoes, not just the psychographics, the demographics, but actually how are they feeling in any one moment? What have you produced? How did that make them feel? If something hasn't worked, you know, if you've done one of these pieces of handraiser content, maybe on Facebook, and you've said, I'm creating this thing who wants details and nothing has happened.

okay, right, let's go out to some of our regulars and find out, did you see that? A, probably not.

If you've only measured it once.

What kind of blend would you look at?

What has been risky for you? What things have worked out and perhaps what hasn't? Yeah,

I love this topic because I actually have quite strong feelings on it.

So I started my first business in January 2012.

This delivery began, the planning began the year before.

So I haven't had a job since... 2011 so that in itself is a risk right that the stakes are high especially now like our entire family income is generated from this business but when i started that first business i knew that i needed support i wanted support so i identified a program it was called entrepreneurial spark back then it's now called the nat west or rbs accelerator depending which part of the country you're in um And it was free, but it was still a risk for me to join because at that time, it's changed a lot now, the programme.

But at that time, you had to really commit to being there.

So I knew that I was going to need to base myself there.

So your reflections then on when you're working with people who don't have the level of motivation that you do, how does that work? What have you noticed?