[laughs]

...

I would say that in some ways, I suppose, we are, we're coming from a good place.

So we're starting at a, at a, in terms of in, in the 1990s, for example, seen as a kind of golden age for British Jews.

Uh, there was very low levels of antisemitism.

Western Europe traditionally, of course, uh, you know, since the Holocaust era, is much less antisemitic than most other places in the world.

Western Europe, I should say, you know, and, and America, places like that.

... uh, in the UK.

Do you think that Harry just has in- advisors that are arou- yes people, which, you know, Hollywood is full of yes people around him, telling him that this is his legacy, that they're helping his brand, or do you think he's just become too invested to s- to step away?

Um, I think it's a, maybe a mixture of all of those things.

I, I think that he is not very good at people saying no.

Not, I, I don't know him myself, but that's, that's what it appears from the outset.

Uh, but then also it appears that there were people behind this case that were very incredibly invested in it and were trying to create evidence that didn't exist, but seemed to persuade lots of people that that evidence did exist.

And even when their key witness walked off the case two years ago, um, they still pursued it.

That was the bit that surprised me the most, that a lot of their evidence, their so-called evidence, relied on this one person who was already, uh, y- you know, for, like, being dodgy I would think it would be fair to say.

Yeah.

So even though he stepped back from his royal duties.

Exactly.

So he'd already won or the same group basically had won cases against the Mirror and the Sun.

And I should probably say that because I had been at the Sun, there were a few of my stories that I know people had questioned.

And some of them were, they were all ridiculous.

I should say from the outset, I didn't phone hack or any of that other stuff.

But for example, there was one person who claimed that a story that I'd done was hacked.

But

So, I mean, what, what was it like for you and the other journalists sort of going through this over the last four years of this sort of massive legal battle?

Pretty hellish, scary.

Uh, for me, it actually started, I would say, earlier, in that around 2020, I had friends, uh, in the business telling me, "Oh, Graham Johnson is sniffing around you.

He's trying to find out about you." And at one point, he even phoned me, Graham, and asked where I got my stories, and, uh, I must have phone hacked because I c- otherwise, how could I have got my stories? I put my phone down on him.

So I knew that he was looking at the Mail, and he was looking at me in particular.

Um, and then, but when they came out with the allegations of, you know, as you said, you know, not just hacking, but bugging, theft, um, all sorts of stuff, it, it was so ridiculous that I felt kind of angry and incredulous, but also saddened.

You know, I'm on a, a few Facebook groups with other journalists, and s- quite a, you know, there were quite a few who would say, you know, "There's no smoke without fire," and, "They can't have just alleged this without any sort of knowledge," or, or, you know, w- "They must have some sort of evidence." So, um, it was difficult, and for quite a long time, our names were kept out of the public eye.

And so, yeah, what was the, the cross-examination like? 'Cause I know for some people it can be pretty, pretty nasty and personal.

And yet I thought we had a Prime Minister and a Home Secretary and a Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police who said this sort of language should not be tolerated in the future, Nicole.

Well, indeed we do.

But what we see is something quite different.

And I think that's because they've been so, so, so slow to react to this sort of behaviour.

We live in a society where really we're told not to be hateful.

These are comments that are...

We told not to be racist, not to be hateful.

How much of a concern was it for you as a mum? How careful was your child in selecting one where they would at least feel comfortable if they wanted to continue practising their

They're Jew haters.

Yeah, they're Jew haters and they are, you know, they are kind of terrorist supporters often.

And there are a few groups that were going up there and they are amongst the particularly nastiest and most extreme of the groups.

So the Jewish community that lives in that area, it's a very big area where many Jews live.

They came out in force and kind of got them away.

So the police could have done more.

uh but i think it was also it felt like quite a volatile situation and in the end though pro-palestinian people were forced out of the area so it felt like this kind of slight victory that uh but they didn't win but at the same time as you mentioned there were people doing the um well at least one person is photographed doing this it's an inverted triangle which is a kind of sign for pro-hamas and there were ayatollah signs So we can see the extent of what these pro-Palestinians really are about, which, again, is not about the Palestinians who are kind of being held hostage by Hamas.

What do you think?