NHSX

And what was leadership's solution to that failure?

They created a brand new entity called NHSX to lead yet another phase of transformation, chasing the exact same objectives using a slightly different approach.

Unbelievable.

The creation of a new structure instantly makes the earlier failures appear irrelevant.

I don't know how we do medicine without moving to a, a future where we can see more patients and we can have fewer healthcare professionals seeing patients, because that is our future.

It's so interesting, because when I was at NHSX and looking at the question of workforce and training in relation to AI, it's essentially exactly the same conclusion that we came to in terms of AI and digital skills.

When it comes to giving clinicians the opportunity to have dual training, to become experts in digital health and AI alongside their clinical work, having that flexibility, having a, a clear program to progress, 'cause otherwise we just risk losing these clinicians from the clinical workforce, which is really a tragedy, I think.

So yeah, I completely echo what you said, and I think that's a fantastic suggestion.

How did your colleagues at that senior level or even people that you reported to above you respond to or engage with these networks when you talked with them about it?

I mean, I remember the moment when, When the national, there was a gentleman called Matthew Gould, who I knew briefly, who was the national director for an organization called NHSX, which was spun up by one of our health secretaries at a certain point.

I'd kind of like to describe it, although, you know, A hundred people might shoot me for saying this.

It was kind of almost like a bit of a skunk works in the NHS.

He was trying to do that thing of being more innovative, slightly separated from the whole.

Big organizations try this all the time.

So the NHSX was that.

He was the national lead for NHSX.