Neil Back

And before we went live and everything started recording, me and Duncan were talking off, off air, and Duncan sort of mentioned that when Ben Earl had a season where he'd just got through, he was young, he was 19, 20 maybe, and he came back after a summer, and he's obviously been on the meat pies and the chips 'cause he piled on some weight.

And I remember the old story of Neil Back when Neil Back was dropped by England because he was 5'10" and 12 stone.

He went, "Well, there's nothing I can do about me height, but I'll make sure I come back." He went on something like an 8,500 calorie a day diet and came back at 16 and a half stone and never was dropped by England again.

And it appears that Toby Knight, whilst he's been off injured, whether someone's turned around and said, "Yeah, go on, have your Häagen-Dazs, have your pizzas, have your whatever.

So it is difficult because you only find it at that level like England in 03 where a lot of the lads challenged and also drove the culture and the game plan and went on to win a World Cup.

Clyde Woodward was front and centre of that because he was manager but I think he allowed the players to dictate that which you can do when you've got Johnny Wilkinson, Martin Johnson, Neil Back and Mike Tindall and Whoever it is like whatever Jason Robinson like the list is endless of like world-class players who can take a team and Take it forward from a playing perspective I wish I did it more because I didn't believe in a lot of the stuff that we're doing didn't believe in the training techniques I thought the players were over trained and we were doing stuff that was completely irrelevant during training weeks there was confusion around who was being picked and There was two or three captains in the team.

We were the only team that went to a World Cup with one captain.

And I just wished that I pushed a little bit harder on that.