Natalie Sambhi

Both are landmark security agreements, but they occur at a time in which the Indonesian military's domestic role is transforming rapidly.

To help us understand how civil military relations are changing under the Prabowo government and its impact on Australia's defence relations with Indonesia, meet my guest, Dr Natalie Sambi.

Natalie is a founder and executive director of the independent think tank Verve Research, which provides analysis on Southeast Asian foreign policy and security issues.

She's also a non-resident fellow with the Brookings Institute, where she publishes on Indonesian foreign and defence policy issues, as well as Southeast Asian security.