She's VP of marketing at Calibramine, and her view is that attribution can still be useful as this filter, especially when you're trying to separate meaningful activity from channel clutter, but it still depends on the discipline of the data that's underneath it.

Business is built on frameworks.

You have to have frameworks.

None of them are perfect.

George Box's quote comes to mind, all models are flawed.

Some are more useful than others, right? But it's a framework and it's a tool to answer certain questions.

It's essentially you have to be responsible with the data that you have and responsible in a way where you understand what it means.

So Nadia is separating surface reporting from the analytical work that makes attribution worth writing in the first place.

Is ABM for B2C a thing, and if so, why not?

It honestly sounds like a misnomer because (laughs) account-based marketing for consumers, for people, is not a thing.

But if I deployed my imagination, I could see the world where if we have agents, and my agents talk to your agents, and I have to program my agents to deliver something to the agents of everyone else, those could be treated as accounts.

So that may be a thing, but I think it's futuristic.

Anything you wanna promote? Anything you wanna tell the world about before I let you go?

I would tell people to think about their data, whether it's ABM or anything else, I feel like that's the biggest challenge within MarOps.

That's how I joined CaliberMind, being on the customer side, because I had the data challenge within ABM that I could not solve otherwise.

But CaliberMind or not, that's the challenge that marketers are facing.

For mid-market SaaS companies, should the CMO and VP of sales report into a CRO?

I'm actually biased, and my answer to this question would be biased.

I would say no.

And that just comes from personal experience.

And again, depends on the person, depends on their background.

If the CRO is a marketer at heart and a former CMO, maybe that would be different.

But sometimes, the CRO focus is very short-term, where the marketing focus, in a lot of case, especially when it comes to brand, is long-term.

If your KPI is always dollars right now, you're gonna be short-term focused, as opposed to thinking about long-term growth, building brand, and the things that turn into dollars over a long period of time.

In order, name the five most important TLAs for B2B marketers today.

Well, since we're talking about ABM, let's start with ABM, CRM, MQA, MQL, CAC.

Why is ABM number one?

Because B2B sells to accounts, we never sell to people.

Now, if I was working for L'Oreal or Coca-Cola, I'd probably start with, I don't know-

When will AI be able to execute an end-to-end ABM campaign?

I think we're a few years away from that, because just like rev ops people are fighting workflows today, eventually they'll be fighting AI agents, if everything has an agent.

So, it will be the same data challenge that we have today, just executed differently.

So, I think for it to be autonomous, we're a few years away.

But I do think that it's closer than maybe the world realizes, going end-to-end with your target accounts without actually having to touch your targeted accounts.

I would love that demo.

And let's start off with the fundamental question: What's the difference between ABM and just good targeting?

I think that's the question that ABM platforms try to answer by bringing their services to the general public, saying that "we are giving you good targeting, therefore, you can now do ABM." But ultimately, good targeting is a tactic.

It can be done through many different ways.

I mean, 6sense does a great job, Demandbase does a great job, but so do many other tools.

LinkedIn has targeting, right, that you can go down to the contact level roles and affinities and audiences, and you can actually do ABM just running stuff, the programmatic side of it, on LinkedIn, right? But when you think about ABM in general, like it's a strategic go-to-market motion, right? It defines how you go to market, how you engage the accounts, and how do you make it all about them, where they feel like you've grown on them so much that the only answer that they can provide to your marketing outreach and the engagement tactics that you put in front of them is "yes." And ABM is newer, or newish, just because the technology became available, like, right around 2016, 2017.

I mean, I remember the heydays of Terminus, I'm here in Atlanta.

They were right down the street from us, and once they came into the office, we're talking the days when everybody was in person, right? They came into the office and they pitched to us.

Let me move on and ask, how should companies align sales and marketing KPIs for ABM success? Are the metrics the same across both sales and marketing?