Nadia Bolz-Weber

Um, you and Sarah Bessey, and is it Jen Hatmaker? I think you guys are, like, the top writers.

Nadia Bolz-Weber.

Oh, and Nadia.

And Nadia Bolz-Weber.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hay House author, and her name is Nancy Levin.

And she's amazing, and she gave a quote from a woman named, I hope I'm saying her name right, Nadia Bolz-Weber, and it's, "Right from the s- scar and not the wound." And-

Hmm.

Yes

In evangelical spaces, it kind of starts in the reverse.

And then, and then you have the more disruptive voices like Rachel Held Evans and Sarah Bessey and Nadia Bolz-Weber that emerge.

And then you have social media, which means that their influence becomes more visible t- even to people who are not on the blogs and clicking on the blog roll, right? So all of a sudden in the, like, 2010s, you, you have these women who had built incredible platforms largely hidden from other people, especially men, and especially male religious authorities.

All of a sudden they realize, "Wait, who are these people? And, and women in my church are reading them?" Right? And, and then it, it, and then you have this kind of scuffle [laughs] for a while of trying to contain their authority.

... to write that chapter and try to get things exactly right.

Yeah.

What's interesting is I've seen a conservative reviewer, conservative evangelical reviewer claim that I was just, like, w- really nice to Rachel Held Evans, Sarah Bessey, and Nadia Bolz-Weber, and I just look at it, I think I, I was no nicer to her than I was to Ann Voskamp or, you know, another...

Elizabeth Elliot even, or Hannah Woodall Smith, right? And just really trying to get inside their story and make it as compelling as possible to readers who may never have even heard of these people.

And what you just described is that story.

At the end of the emergent church, there's like, oh, you can go to the mainline with Rachel Held Evans and Nadia Bolz-Weber.

There was the young, restless, and reformed that went sort of Mark Driscoll, and so you can go to, you know, angry he-man church, which has some really interesting things about women going on.

Or you can deconstruct, which is kind of the main door.

It had to be absorbed into the mainline.

And that's why all of these liberationist types are gonna be absorbed into the mainline.

I mean, I've already seen a few of them saying, "I'm leaving evangelical blah, blah, blah." I'm like, "Yeah, you'll be absorbed into the mainline." 'Cause the mainline is like the dumping ground of where, of where, you know, moral ent- the moral entrepreneurs of Christianity go when they've outlived their discursive be- best before date, right? You become like Nadia Bolz-Weber, and you just become a pastrix or pastor or whatever they call themselves now.

Um, where this leaves in Canada is you're seeing a picture of this com- in Canada where the liberal consensus in Canada is being held in place by boomers who are afraid of Donald Trump.

What is a good story? It's a story, for me, that's already been contained and distilled and is tidy, and that's a big concern, isn't it, for people doing marketing.

There's a woman in the States called Nadia Bolz-Weber.

Mm-hmm.

And she says, "Speak from your scars and not your wounds."

If you genuinely hurt somebody and harmed somebody in your sexual adventures, that is the only time you need to feel guilty.

Apart from that, if it was fun, if it was consensual, if you really got to explore yourself and test your boundaries, if you had the most life-giving, ecstatic experiences, the kind of experiences that you will talk about in your 80s and you will laugh about forever, that is amazing that is a good thing we are taking the moralizing out of who you have sex with and who you don't the only moralizing in my opinion a lot of us opinion is when you are to live when you are when you hurt other people um i love in the book shameless by there's a train going past by Nadia Bolz-Weber, which is like one of the wonderful books that people read when coming out of purity culture.

And she talks about how in sex positive and BDSM world, there's the concept of safe, sane and consensual when it comes to BDSM or play.

And she said, I really want to add the caveat caring concern as well.