Murray Esler

And, and really especially with these trainees and junior scientists.

You know, Mike, you have so many years of experience, like you said, dating back into the work and, uh, with Murray Esler and Gunnar Wallin.

And both you and Nisha have, have published with Gunnar Wallin.

I mean, most new, new trainees don't even know who Gunnar Wallin is now these days.