Modern Love

From The New York Times, I'm Anna Martin.

This is Modern Love, and today I'm talking to author Kelly McWilliams.

[gentle music] When Kelly walks into a room, most people see a white woman.

They look at her light skin, her fine hair, and they think they kinda get her deal.

And this character is based off the real life of Civil Rights activist Walter White, who's become a kinda inspiration for Kelly.

Today, Kelly tells me how being Black has shaped her relationships, and why the thing most people don't see is the thing that's the most important to her.

[gentle music] Kelly McWilliams, welcome to Modern Love.

Thank you so much for having me.

And just, you know, there's just something very poignant about it, right? I mean, it just it stays in your memory, more, almost like trauma, you know, except it's not exactly traumatic, but it's just encapsulated in that way.

And then I also wrote another travel story that never got published for Modern Love about my RV trip during the pandemic from California to New York, you know, to see my now wife, then girlfriend.

And it didn't get published because it's competitive.

Yeah, that sounds like a great story, though.

Yeah, I mean, modern love is probably like the most competitive thing that you can do.

But funny enough, Grant, I saw that, you know, very shortly after I did not get published in modern love, there was like another RV story.

And I was like, Oh, I see everyone in the country, basically, who had a long distance relationship decided to do the RV thing.

So

If you're not doing well, let's find a way to get well, look well, and of course, you already know it, be well.

Right now, we are going to tune in to Modern Love.

Taylor had this idea of a timeline.

And I know lots of people have something like this.

But the other parts of her life did not go the way she expected, especially the marriage part.

Today, I talked to Taylor Tomlinson about what happens when your timeline gets all kinds of messed up and how to go for what you want next while accepting where you are now.

Taylor Tomlinson, welcome to Modern Love.

Thank you so much for having me.

So that was when I started writing personal essays and it was that...

the moment when Daniel Jones from the New York Times said he liked my Modern Love essay and wanted to publish it.

And that validated that my feeling that maybe I can do something with writing and maybe I can continue to pursue this.

And I know maybe that's sad that I needed that, but for me, that really lit a fire under me to keep going.

From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin.

This is Modern Love.

And today, I'm talking to director Joe Swanberg.

[upbeat music] Joe has spent pretty much his entire adult life and his career making movies about messy relationships.

[upbeat music] So today, Joe and I discuss how all of this inspired his new movie, The Sun Never Sets.

We get into his divorce, his midlife crisis, and how much you can surprise yourself when there's love on the line.

Joe Swanberg, welcome to Modern Love.

Thank you very much.

Tell Two Friends is her most recent release, and here we go with this interview.

I can't wait to have you hear about what happened when her Modern Love article came out.

Here we go.

Enjoy.

What could I

possibly not want to talk

about? Can we talk about the Modern Love article? Because I love this story.

Oh, of course.

Now, when you download the New York Times app for the first time, your first month in the app is free.

That's 30 days of access to our journalism, which includes every Modern Love episode ever made, totally free, no credit card required.

Download the New York Times app now to get started.

From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin.

This is Modern Love.

And today I'm

talking to chef and cookbook author Carla Lally.

Thank you.

And Lauren also is there.

She approaches Diana Enzo, and she says that she just met the Modern Love romance editor.

Oh, wait, they call it Modern Romance in

this.

Yeah, but I guess it's meant.

It's supposed to be Modern Love.

Yeah, the New York

Times.