And I'm curious also, how does that tie into how you think about teams, both internal to the organization and as how you match up against key customers?

Yeah, a lot of it is based off of learning through our experiences.

Hey, what happened early in our careers? How did we evolve? What were some of those drivers that caused us to want to change and continue to evolve? And looking back on it, when you start up into becoming a manager, overseeing people, you look at some of the mistakes that you made early on.

A lot of it, first-time managers want to prove their worth.

They end up taking on too much work, turning it into a control issue, wanting to handle every task, want to handle every issue that pops up.

Those are some of the things I saw early in my career that some of the mistakes I made with not leading by example and not realizing that you had to teach and delegate to really get that team to evolve.

When you try to take on too much from a control side, you've got a less engaged team.

This is 24 seven, that type of thing.