Mike Berners-Lee

That would be one bit of the jigsaw as well.

And I listened to your podcast with Mike Berners-Lee on, you know, stuff like that, which I thought was very interesting.

Yeah.

And I think you're right.

If at the same time, we're not doing anything about it as consumers.

So where I'm going with that is if it is widely understood and widely publicized in the public, which let's hope these statistics become more like, what is it, Mike Berners-Lee's How Bad Are Bananas, that people have a quick reference of like, I've just done a GPT or a Le Chat or a Claude Code, then they should have a sense of what the cost is.

My challenge would be, is your query 10 times more useful than a Google search? In which case I kind of feel the scales maybe balance themselves out.

If you said to me, Did I use, you know, one of these Gen AI things to just do a sort of, you know, cat on a vacuum cleaner mashup video, then sure, maybe as a teenager, that's just part of me finding out what's funny.

But at the same time, there was There Is No Planet B, the book came out.

um Mike Berners-Lee and there's a Sankey diagram in there that talks about the the energy in the system uh the food system and you know that just convinced me to go planet-based uh planet-based I should call it that plant-based plant-based for the planet right vegan for the animals so we went plant-based off the back of that so it feels like something happened in 2019 and it all kind of catalyzed together um and then yeah started making things happen

Amazing.

We have often heard on the podcast when people talk about how to engage procurement, that there is a need to kind of find those possible champions in a procurement team or those category managers and pilot and test them.

John Elkington's Green Swans.

classic would always recommend that one one that had a profound effect on me was Michael Mann's The New Climate War that really kind of struck a number of chords with me so all of those I think are worth it but if I had to do one it would be the my old perennial favorite of How Bad Are Bananas by Mike Berners-Lee

Wonderful.

I did know that you were very fond of that book.