So are you in touch with people who are in the White House or close to the White House, were hurtling towards a midterm election that looks pretty bad for Donald Trump and the Republicans? do you and trump seems to be furiously throwing out anything he can to try and um stop what appears to be uh inevitable uh do you sense any panic do you hear anything about

yeah i do i do and you know i think that they've pretty much written off the house I mean, they'll occasionally...

I mean, first thing, yes, I am in touch, and in relative frequent touch.

So I would say the affect is, yes... we are probably going to lose the House.

And then they give you a rationale about how the path in which they could yet win the House.

But I think the underlying assumption there is we're going to lose it.

At the same time, they remain not as confident as they have been, but yet fairly confident that they will hold the Senate.

And as Trump sees it, Michael, doesn't this take it away from Trump?

Well, just lined up like a Haagen-Dazs

fridge.

Yeah, no, like we were in a store, a Haagen-Dazs store, I don't know.

And cherry vanilla.

And I said no, but it didn't make any difference.

He didn't listen to me because he doesn't listen to anyone.

He threw me one.

may want to thank

likes to have these Natalie types circling around him now.

So I was during the first administration.

So I was in the White House.

I went into the White House, you know, I think October, January 21st, 2017, and was there basically for about seven months.

And and at one point I called my wife and I said and I said, is it just just give me a reality check here.

Is it unusual? that all of the women, 100% of the women here, wear their hair down, their skirts short, and in winter, high boots.

And my wife confirmed that this was, at least to a man, that would be quite unusual, or to a woman.

Do you think he's deteriorating mentally and physically?

The role of a president is to protect the country, not to actively threaten it and encourage attacks on American lives." It really does seem like he's slightly lost it here.

Well, I, I mean, I think, I think what he is trying to say is that if the Iranians had, have c- uh, developed a nuclear capability, that they could then theoretically take out American cities.

Now, that would be quite a, an, uh, quite a leap even for, um, um, uh, e- even once they do have a nuclear capability.

So I mean, but let's, let's give him, give him the benefit of that doubt.

I mean, obviously during the Cold War, uh, politicians were always warning that New York or Washington could be, um, um, could be the subject of a, of a nuclear attack.

But that's not really the thing.

That's not gonna happen.

Bolsonaro was a friend of Trump's.

Do you think that's reasonable criticism?

I think it's overblown in the sense that, yes, there have been times when there have been more trial lawyers than not, but I don't think that's the case now.

But these are elected by members of the bar.

And so the fact that they're lawyers, yes.

Having had the experience of chairing that commission when I was chief justice, I can tell you that the non-lawyer members are really quite active and really quite influential in terms of those choices.

So it's not dominated necessarily by the lawyers.

And also they've made it transparent to the extent that They do conduct their interviews in public, although I don't think hardly anybody attends.

Redistricting.

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Mm-hmm

So Michael, how did you get these, th-these letters?

Y- um, Natalie Harp was a, an issue during the campaign among the Trump staffers, uh, which of, of, of great concern to them, of almost all of them.

Every, all of the staff, the aides around Donald Trump knew that he was spending too much time with Natalie Harp, that she, that her influence was growing, and it was influence based on nothing at all.

She had no experience, certainly none, none in politics or policy.

But she was becoming the person that he was listening to, and she was the person who was keeping other people away from, uh, from the then candidate.

And, and this got m- more extreme as the campaign went on, that she became the, um, uh, the, m- uh, the, the gatekeeper to, um, to the former President of the United States, soon to become the next President of the, of the United States.

Congressional leaders, press, everybody had to go through Natalie Harp, and it was like, "Who is this person? Where did she come from? What is, what is her function? What is her purpose? Uh, why are we talking to Natalie Harp?" And there begin, there began to be a kind of, a kind of revolt.

Um, is this the moment where it slips from incompetence into frankly farce?

Mm-hmm.

So it was, um, this was at the virtual convention, but, but there she was, given television time to say, "Donald Trump saved my life." This then gave her more access to the, um, to the Trump world, and in fact got her a job in, when Trump went to Mar-a-Lago.

She became, and this would be 2021, maybe early 2022, o- one of, you know, in, in political campaigns and in political circles, there's, there's, uh, just a, a, always a range of what- whatever interns, go-fetch-it people, um, people doing errands, volunteers, basically.

And that's what she became, a go-fetch-it girl.

From there, she became what is also called in, in campaign termin- terminology, a body person.

And the body person is the person, is the person who is in a, a, a attending the candidate's or the, or the politician's needs at any point.

"Get me a cup of coffee."

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So it was, um, this was at the virtual convention.

But, but there she was, given television time to say, "Donald Trump saved my life." This then gave her more access to the, um, to the Trump world, and in fact got her a job in when Trump went to Mar-a-Lago.

She became, mm, this would be 2021, maybe early 2022, o- one of ...

You know, in, in political campaigns and in political circles, there's, there's b- b- just a, a always a range of what- whatever interns, go fetch it people, um, people doing errands, volunteers, basically.

And that's what she became, a go fetch it girl.

From there, she became What is also called in, in campaign termin- terminology a body person.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And the effort is not to talk about him as most of the media does from the outside, looking at him as a fairly typical political creature and political phenomenon.

We look at this from, try to do this from the inside, that what goes on in this government is atypical in every way because it all comes out of, of w- of one man's head.

What he's thinking, what he's feeling, um, what he, what he doesn't know, so he has to cover up by pretending that he, he knows, and everyone around him is forced to, is forced to m- not only listen to him, but absolutely do what he wants because you cannot disagree with him.

You can't really even talk to him because he doesn't listen.

I mean, this is a departure in every way from what we understand American politics and American democracy to be about.

It is just one singular guy, and this is not an, this is not an argument to say that he's a would-be dictator or a would-be despot or any of these things.

Trump Force One had become the decoy plane, his staff and guests available to be shot out of the sky with Trump himself on a secret flight.

[laughs]

... by, uh, by, by hairspray.

I mean, this is a very, a central component of Donald Trump's identity and career, and he's very...

I mean, one of my favorite passages i- in, [laughs] in, at this point in all literature is Stormy Daniels describing when, uh, they're lying in bed and he, she asks him about his hair.

"Hey, what's with that hair?" And he tells her, and he tells her in a very self-aware way.

It's r- really one of the few instances of self-awareness that, uh, have ever been ascribed to Donald Trump.

Um, and he said, "You know, I was a handsome guy, you know, I had a, you know, I had a great, great head of hair and then I started to lose it, so, so I started to compensate for it.

Because I can.

Do, do you believe that he was talked into it by Netanyahu?

Well, I think that there were probably two things.

I, I, I think this has been among his obs- three things.

This has been among his obsessions for a long time, the Iranians, 1979, et cetera, et cetera.

But also this came on the heels of, of, of whatever we are calling the, um, what we did in Venezuela, and he found that to be enormously successful.

It was totally...

You know, he was a hero.

I don't see an obvious person.

What's the real deterioration? What do you hear?

Well, I...

It's always hard to measure Trump's deterioration because Trump has always been in a category of one, at least in my view.

But I think that what was interesting about last night and what is so hard to express because we don't have the language for it, is Trump is crazy.

I mean, this is delusional.

This is, he's over the top.

He cannot process reality.

And why don't you just tell our viewers and listeners a little bit more about Mr. Epstein and where he came from and what he's doing there?

Start with Fox Roku, because some people said, "What are they doing buying Roku?"

Well, f- first of all, Fox has been the most disciplined of all the media and entertainment companies in this age of streaming.

Th- they really totally avoided the streaming arms race.

So they bought, a couple years ago, they bought Tubi f- in twenty twenty, four hundred and forty million dollars, probably one of the best media deals of the last decade.

Today, it's doing over a billion dollars in revenue, and it's all about free advertiser-supported television.

Eighty-six percent of American households today are paying for streaming.

You only have about fifty percent that are watching free advertiser-supported television.

So why is Brian Roberts finally throwing in the towel and saying, "Let's break it up"?

... term limited

... it's, it's, uh...

Yes.

Nevertheless, the contrast here, and, and I have no, I don't know who should, who, who people in Maine should vote for, and I assume, and I hope...

And I hope it's a Republican, uh, it turns into a Democratic Senate.

But nevertheless, you have Susan Collins, who is, who is a professional, who has done this job, who knows how to do this job, who has, um, who has been elected, I, and, um, who is viewed enormously favorable by her constituency, and then you have someone who's a to- who's a, just a wild card.

This is what we know about Graham Plattner.

Mm.

So who knows whether or not that's what's going on here, but clearly an over-focus on something which, amid everything else he has to deal with, is not as important.

I think the thing, the thing to note here is that so much else has gotten out of his cr- out of his control.

He's not in a good place.

Politically, he's not in a good place.

And this is in contrast.

Remember, we've had, we've had 16 months of this, of this, this term when for most of that time, or at least a year of that time, he was the dominant guy.

Um, you know, um, I mean, I mean, I, I saw some publicity for the, the, um, um, uh, you know, the, this new book about, about the Trump presidency, um, the Maggie Haberman book, you know, talking about him as the most powerful president, um, of the modern age.

Okay, can you explain what you mean?

I mean, how could the implementation of AI in legal end up costing you more? That seems impossible.

Well, I'll tell you, if I have to guess, it probably looks something like either uh, well, first of all, you've got now, I think we're up to four, maybe five generations of attorney that have gone through this.

All that matters is what you bills thing and understand.

And I, and I have this from, uh, one of my professors in, in, in law school.

Uh, Michael is, you know, had his own firm for many, many years, was very successful with it, became a mediator.

He's very successful with that business.

And he, you know, he was teaching the, the, I think they called it law office management or something like that.

looking

Just, just, just as a quick aside, when people called to complain about you writing about them or what you'd said about them, how did you deflect?

Yeah, you know, I just usually just listen and go, "Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh," you know.

"Thanks.

I understand." You know, you just, you, you just, you actually try not to engage because they're just gonna yell at you.

Um, so a- and with Trump, that's the way I would do it too.

And he must have been very afraid of that.

What a calamity and, and totally unnecessary.

You know, there is a greater sense of, ofI was going to say transparency, but there's always been transparency with Donald Trump.

But through the window, everything that's going on is so chaotic and confusing, you don't know what it means.

But I think more and more now, what we get is a sense of clarity.

We do know what it means.

We do know the Donald Trump playbook.

We do know what he's going to do.

It's an American institution, I think it's fair to say.

Right.

Um, the, um, uh, uh, the answer is obvious, because h- he's a mess.

Um, because this is an 80-year-old obese man who doesn't get a lick of exercise and who has a, um, a, a negative health diet.

So what is he? I mean, we can s- we can see the, the, his extremities filling up with fluid.

There's a 14-pound weight gain.

Uh, his blood pressure has, has, um, has got to be up, which means they're, they're increasing his blood pressure medication, means that he's waking up dizzy.

Um, it, it's a, it's a, it's a calamity.

Drugs, drink, i- or, or just sheer distress at having lost access to her child.

Why don't you explain?

Yeah.

Okay.

So, uh, we got a ruling after four months of waiting for a ruling, we got a ru- ruling on the, uh, late, um, on the afternoon of Friday b- before Memorial Day.

In other words, just at the moment when the judge could issue it and get the least amount of attention for it.

And I think that this is about...

I mean, we, we, we knew from the beginning that we had drawn in the Southern District a Trump judge, and I guess we, we expected or suspected, expected that that would probably have a meaningful impact on the, on, on the case.

Well, um, so what, what can we expect from the Epstein files if and when the Democrats gain, um, the power of a subpoena in the committees? And, um, what do you think they can learn? There are three million documents left that have not been released.

But of course, Witkoff didn't need to do that because he's a deal guy and he's used to doing deals with downtown Manhattan real estate, which of course prepares you to deal with one of the world's most diabolical men, Vladimir Putin.

So let's at, at, at this, this point, again, this inflection point in the Trump political career and in the second term when everything is going wrong, he is, he's looking at al- almost, uh, you, you can, you can tick down, down the issues from the economy to ICE and immigration to, of course, the war in Iran to, um, to, um, uh, the ballroom to e- everything is giving Trump enormous problems, and he's looking forward, and he is at now the nadir in his, um, in his, um, favorability ratings, which are, which are falling down, going down all, all of the issues that are facing him from, from the economy to immigration to healthcare to, uh, to, uh, the, uh, the ballroom, which he's fixated on that everybody else is horri- the entire world is horrified by, um, to, um, uh, to, uh, the war in Iran to I, I, I, again and again, just, just go down the list.

Everything is causing him problems.

He is now at, at, uh, his polling is, is, um, uh, his polling just says one thing, which is that o- obviously the midterms are gonna be a catastrophe and, um, he may, uh, actually, he may lose the Senate as well.

I mean, he-- We're almost at the point of being able to say he will lose.

If things keep going as they are, he will lose the Senate, and then he will lose the House.

Everything, everything, the bottom will fall out of, of Trump world.

So the other thing that I found curious is the, um, [lip smack] the losing, the Thomas Massie losing and Bill Cassidy losing, and Trump throwing his weight finally behind Ken Paxton against John Cornyn in Texas.

We haven't had a surgeon general since Donald Trump took over in Trump too, which m- makes me wonder if we actually even need one.

Well, let's, let's look at this as a more global, global issue, and there are two levels.

First, the, the level of all of the people around Donald Trump.

Um, and, you know, they're now like, um, each one in turn seems to be, um, uh, in danger of his, of, of losing his posi- his or her position.

Many are her, many hers so far.

Um, and, and this is among Donald Trump's problems, this is a central one, that he has staffed the administration with people who everyone, everyone... thinks are jokes.

Um, and that is also, this is certainly true of RFK Jr., but also very specifically directed at him because he has become the face of something that is deeply, deeply unpopular, which is the anti-vax position.

Um, thoughts.

And then what of the former FBI Director James Comey, who for a strange seashell, uh, image that he posted on Instagram, which was of an 86 in seashells and then 47, um, is, has been indicted?

Uh, well, well this is the second indictment.

Um, the first in- the first effort to indict him by, by the Trump Justice Department, uh, was, was thrown out.

So now this is the second indictment, which seems more tenuous, much more tenuous than even the first indictment.

But Todd Blanche, um, so the, um, [lips smack] uh, uh, the, uh, the former Attorney General Pam Bondi was, of course, fired recently, and one of the reasons that she was fired is that she failed to, uh, she failed in her efforts to indict Trump's enemies.

So Todd Blanche, who is now the acting, um, attorney general hoping to become the permanent attorney general, is desperately trying to indict Trump's enemies.

And now they have this new indictment against, against, um, against James Comey, completely ridiculous and an indictment that will not, that will not survive.

Um, but she looked like she would rather have been anywhere than by his side.

And it seems as though the timeline does not match that.

Yeah, also bullshit.

I mean, first thing, anything that Donald Trump says we ought to know by this point, if we do not know at this point, something wrong with us, that he doesn't tell the truth.

His, his, uh, he has either no interest in telling the truth, um, um, or is incapable of telling the truth, which also might, might be true.

But his timeline on that is, um, um-Uh, it, it is, is, is, is weird, you know, that it happened in, in 2000 or 2001, but we still know that he's close to Epstein until 2004.

A- anyway, I think Epstein's, um, Epstein's version of this is much... is the more cogent version.

They had a fight over real estate.

What I wanna kind of focus in on a little bit is you said earlier that you're not really commenting about the cognitive elements of this, but it sort of sounds like those are comments about it, unless I just misunderstand them.