Mm-hmm.

Lula for, you know, his previous three terms has, uh, has been able to brag about delivering strong economic results.

Uh, certainly in his first term, which was at the height of the so-called Pink Tide, the, the wave of, the first wave of left-wing victories, uh, throughout the region in which many countries, uh, did very well economically, uh, through exporting commodities.

In the case of Brazil, uh, things like, uh, soybeans, uh, natural gas, oil, uh, beef, and largely that was to feed China, which was, uh, growing very rapidly at the time.

And so this established a very strong economic relat- trade relationship, uh, with China.

Now, it hasn't been growing ...

The, the Brazilian economy hasn't been growing at such a gangbusters rate.

Um, so yeah, if we could just kind of maybe, uh, tell me about what the current opportunity, uh, what current moment presents itself for, uh, both left-wing and right-wing governments.

Look, we've talked about the prevalence of those groups, but can you explain very briefly what they are, and, and I suppose, uh, the function that they have in Venezuela, or what, what they're doing there, versus what's being claimed that they're doing?

Oh, sure.

Uh, I do research on organized crime in Latin America, and Tren de Aragua is a real organized criminal group in Venezuela, and now all over Latin America.

It is a street gang that started out as a prison gang.

Uh, it does not primarily engage in international drug trafficking, moving large quantities of drugs across national borders or across oceans.

It is primarily engaged in-... human trafficking and extortion rackets, and it primarily follows the Venezuelan diaspora, people who have left Venezuela.

And at this point, it's an incredible 20% of the population over the last 10 years of Maduro's, uh, presidency, so nearly eight million people.

Yeah.