I know it probably didn't go the way you wanted in terms of efficiency, but to have the, the stuff you needed in those moments was old school there.

there.Yeah, uh, you know, I've been bad in health.

Yeah, my, my elbow and my shoulder are really good.

[laughs] You know, there's just a couple other things in my body I just keep having to battle, and I finally got those healthy.

Uh, and so when I'm out there, I knew I was gonna be a little rusty, you know.

Y- you know, I really have only made kind of two starts here since April.

Um, so I knew I was gonna be just, you know, off by just, you know, cases of just misses.

... i- is there a reason for us to have some confidence that the season could start on time, or just give me a p- big picture thought from your perspective as one of the guys that's the most plugged in on this.

I know it probably didn't go the way you wanted in terms of efficiency, but to have the stuff you needed in those moments was old school there.

Yeah, you know, I've been bad in health.

My elbow and my shoulder are really good.

You know, there's just a couple other things in my body I just keep having to battle, and I finally got those healthy.

And so when I'm out there, I knew I was going to be a little rusty.

You know, I really have only made kind of two starts here since April.

So I knew I was going to be just, you know, off by just a case of the just misses.

Is there a reason for us to have some confidence that the season could start on time? Or just give me a big-picture thought from your perspective as one of the guys that's the most plugged in on this.

I know it probably didn't go the way you wanted in terms of efficiency, but to have the stuff you needed in those moments was old school there.

Yeah, you know, I've been bad in health.

My elbow and my shoulder are really good.

You know, there's just a couple other things in my body I just keep having to battle, and I finally got those healthy.

And so when I'm out there, I knew I was going to be a little rusty.

You know, I really have only made kind of two starts here since April.

So I knew I was going to be just, you know, off by just a case of the just misses.

Is there a reason for us to have some confidence that the season could start on time? Or just give me a big-picture thought from your perspective as one of the guys that's the most plugged in on this.

You've got four, um, so I wanted to talk to you about, like, what this family atmosphere's been like around here.

Oh, in, in this clubhouse, uh, you know, with all of-- We're a veteran team, and so, [chuckles] you know, we got a lot of kids on this team as well.

Um, you know, a lot of kid-- guys have two, three, four kids.

Um, and so, you know, the family room is packed.

Uh, you know, all, all my kids have made great friends, um, you know, with all the other guys on the team with their kids.

And so, uh, we do a great job of getting them around in the club, the clubhouse and, uh, you know, get them out on the field.

And, um, you know, so it, it's a really fun atmosphere when, you know, everybody has their kids around, uh, you know, especially here at home.

You're kind of-- Are, are-- Do you feel like you're-- I'm, I mean, I know I've seen you jumping around like a kid with these other kids, but do you feel like the dad sometimes a little bit in the clubhouse?

How concerned are you about this, and what is a possible solution to return the value of the starting pitcher to the game?

Yeah, I mean, this is where the analytics come into the game, and then, you know, this is where the front offices, you know, when they're constantly searching for efficiency to win more ballgames, you know, they look at it and they look at a starting pitcher and they say, "We don't want you going three times through the lineup." You know, they're, they're pulling out guys, you know, kind of before they even have a bad inning and, and preemptively to try to win more ballgames.

And so I get the concept.

I get why, you know, decisions are being made in that regard.

Uh, but to me, it's affecting kind of the, the beauty of the game.

Uh, kind of the same way, you know, if you look at the NBA, how it was a much physical game in the '90s and, you know, how the game is, uh, di- much different today.

Uh, you know, some of the fans might not like the game, how it's moved.

Explain where that friendship came from, and what did you see in him that suggested he could be a Major League manager straight from college?

Thank you for saying that.

Everybody wants to do this.

Everybody wants to be out there competing for their country.

This, like, full stop.

Like, there's just no argument about that.

Everybody wants to.

It's just you have a risk factor to this.

... in" Then you go out and you're like, "Yeah, watch this"

I love that story.

No, thanks for having me on, guys.

Now, there was a couple teams that I could have signed with, but Toronto was always in my heart.

I always wanted to come back to it.

But I've been in free agency multiple times.

You think you're going back to a team, and it doesn't work that way.

And so I respected the process, understood how it was going to unfold, knew that if it was Toronto, it was going to be late.

And obviously you went off to a crazy story after that.

What's an athlete do when their ultimate goal is out of reach as far as staying motivated?

Well, I mean, in the process of a regular season, you know, you're sharpening up all the skills.

You're learning the game.

You're fine-tuning yourself of everything that you can do to make yourself the best version of yourself, you know, for the team.

And so, you know, obviously, as a team, you need to win.

You're developing the culture of everything that's going on within the team to be able to win in the regular season.

But then at the end of the year, you get in the playoffs.

And obviously you went off to a crazy story after that.

Mm-hmm.

He really kinda gave me the lowdown of how the Blue Jays operate, and how awesome it is, and how, you know, his experience with it.

So I n- I had a good feeling of what it was gonna be.

When you actually get to see it up and close and personal, and live it, uh, you know, it's obviously better than you can ever, uh, dream up.

But that's one of the things they do so well is how they take care of the families.

And, uh, as much as it was the team, it's also the guys in the clubhouse, too.

Uh, the guys, [laughs] and the families, and all the wives and the kids.

I'm gonna get it there all day." How you gonna handle all that?

And I'm just wondering like with ABS, in your view, like all right, y- you've seen it so far, do you see a better version of it happening? And, and I guess how would you make those adjustments?

Yeah.

So e- I guess this gets back to your original question.

Do I hate, you know, the challenge system? Well, I think what we're kinda hearing is, do we like the challenge system versus status quo? Yes.

But do we like the challenge system versus maybe some other options here? That's where I'm kinda skeptical in where this is actually gonna go.

So two other ways to, to use the technology.

Like, look, the technology, the way we can measure this, it's great.

And that should be true even if the (laughs) spot is slightly outside the strike zone? Is that what we want or not? Do we want every pitch that's called a strike to actually be a strike?

Was that just purely being in the zone? Or is that just having the balls to say, I'm feeling it and I know this is the right call?

Yeah, it's actually been kind of funny to kind of get away from this now.

I've kind of gotten a download of kind of everything that happened in that situation.

And so I can kind of even spill some more beans about that.

and you know, obviously, you know, I, I'll kind of walk you through the moment of, um, you know, I got new to the game state.

I always said that, you know, it was a five to one score ball game and there was one runner on.

So even if I dig up a Homer, like we're still up to, uh, and so I knew that I knew that going in, uh, you know, and I knew the kind of previous two hitters, eight, nine hitters, you know, I kind of wasn't, uh, locate my fastball as well as I wanted to.

you're

through like how I wanted to pitch

Randy.

Um, I checked the scoreboard.

I see him at 69 pitches.

Like, okay.

You know, like I, and plus physically, I felt great.

Um, And so I'm walking through my head of how I wanted to go.

you're getting pulled.

Um, so, you know, it seems to me like technology is a big part of it, right? Because you just have the information in front of you, and it, and it's hard to keep denying it, right? You're, you're looking at instant replay, and the guy was safe by a mile, and you see it on 50 different screens. It was almost like baseball had no choice (laughs), right, to be like, to like, use the data that's coming in. And I'm just wondering, like, with ABS, in your view, like, all right, y- you've seen it so far, do you see a better version of it happening? And, and I guess how would you make those adjustments?

Yeah. So, I, I guess this gets back to your original question. Do I hate, you know, the challenge system? Well, I think what we're kind of here is. Do we like the challenge system versus status quo? Yes. But do we like the challenge system versus maybe some other options here? That's where I'm kind of skeptical in where this is actually gonna go. So, two other ways to, to use the technology. Like, look, the technology, the way we can measure this, it's great. Like, let's use it. How can we use it in a way that minimizes its impact in the games? You know, there's no changed behavior out of the players. We're not... The catchers aren't doing anything that... No. We just want... (laughs) We want the game to stay the exact same. So, first one would be, say, hey, just grade the umpires. Look, the umpires are really good. Most of the umpires are really good. Like you said, 99% of the time, they're, they're getting the calls right. We're cutting down on the egregious calls overall as an industry. The technology is already there, and the umpires are already getting better from that. Really, at the end of the day, this is about kind of the bottom five umpires in the league. That's, I think, always one thing that, you know, has stuck with players is, "Look, if we're not good, we're out of here. We're gone." But if an umpire isn't good, he gets his, keep his job for as long as he wants. And so, you know, I think we need to have a conversation about the, you know, some type of minimum standard that these guys have to get these calls right at some rate in order to be a big league umpire. Because we want the best umpires (laughs) in the game. I mean, I don't think that's a problem of having the, you know, these, these humans be judged by humans. We just wanna make sure that the best ones are there, uh, are doing it. So, that would be the first way to, to address it and minimally affect the game. You're not gonna affect the game whatsoever just by making the umpires better. And I think that's, at the end of the day, what everybody wants. You know, other things you could do here is, all right, introduce a buffer zone maybe around a, you know, around the challenge system. So like, hey, if you challenge, it's in the buffer. It's, the call stands so you keep the, you know, human element still with the umpire. You know, you're just trying to, like, get rid of the egregious calls. So, you know, that's a form of it. Or you just even limit the number of challenges you can even have, like a max amount of challenges you can have in a game of two or three. Not that you... Every time you keep, you know, you win the challenge, you keep it. You know, you can open yourself to having multiple ch- You know, there's games that could be having 10, 12 challenges a game. Then w- if you're in that world, you know, where you could... You keep your challenge, then the electronic strike zone's more in the game. It gets more involved into the game, and then therefore, now you really kind of have two zones. Well, you have the umpire zone, and then you got this electronic strike zone going on kind of at the same time. And as we talked about, well, there's a human element to the, the strike zone that we all kind of want. You're gonna start taking that away. So, you know, I'm not gonna die on this hill, but it, I think it's worth having a discussion, especially as fans and, and people across the game that, hey, it's not just a challenge system (laughs) for status quo. It's, hey, what else could we use the technology to do with it? And if we do go, let's say, go down to grading the umpires, does that get us 90% there? Do we get 90% there without affecting the game whatsoever? And if that is, i- is that good enough? Especially as a... You know, when you introduce something into the game, you don't necessarily need to try to... And especially when we don't... We were sitting here. We, we're not saying there's a problem. You know, like we said, the postseason, there wasn't a problem. Do we really need to be trying to change a fundamental part of the baseball experience, pitching, catching? You know, so that, that's where I'm skeptical and just... And where we, I think, as an industry, we just need to have a conversation about.

All right, so you're raising some really interesting questions here. Okay, let's start with this. You talked about the, when the catcher sets up and you hit that spot, you should get that call, and that should be true even if the spot is slightly outside the strike zone. Is that what we want or not? Do we want every pitch that's called a strike to actually be a strike?

You're looking at how accurate this, you know, you know, down to an eighth of an inch, a quarter of an inch. You know, when you... And that's where I said, you know, it's a 50/50 call. To the human eye, it looks 50/50. You know, you don't know if it's a quarter inch on or quarter inch off. Like, you don't... Like, we're talking about that kind of, that lane where it's kind of you can't tell. I think that's a good part of the game that you're rewarding the pitcher, you're rewarding the pitcher for hitting a spot, you know. And remember, I always think of the strike zone as kind of a cloud. It's a probability. It's not like a laser zone, you know. You might hit your spot one time, ball hits your next spot, it's a strike. Throughout a course of a game with an umpire, you kind of know, like you're kind of adding up in your head like, "Man, I didn't get that call. I didn't get that call. Oh, I got that call. Okay, we're kind of even." You know? Or, you know, it ju- that's just kind of how it works over the game, and I think that's a good feature or part of the game because (laughs) you want pitchers locating. If we sit there and say we're going to have more just, "Hey, it's just an electronic strike zone," okay, does this mean now that pitchers can come in and it's just a stuff game?You know, we're just gonna be introducing more stuff. Catchers are just gonna sit up middle. We don't care about the frame whatsoever. And the game changes that way. You know, if there's a base here on first, now the frame doesn't matter. Does the catcher now change his stance so he can throw out the runner e- more easily? You know, the frame doesn't matter, right? Now the call is more fair, you know, with the pitch we're talking about here. You know, we're gonna change our human behavior because now we've changed how we call balls and strikes. So, that's kind of the things I think about when you start, you know, taking away the human element. Hey, is it a quarter inch here or there? You know, what... Is that really solving problems, or are you bre- going to be creating new problems to solve that quarter inch conundrum that you're talking about?