M
Max Haiven
Musical artist
5
APPEARANCES
5
PODCASTS
036
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Sep 28, 2026
The Player and the Played: From Gamed Capitalism to 21st-Century Fascism with Max Haiven (MIT Press, 2026)
20:21
20:38
20:45
20:53
20:13
Could you explain what you mean by that and why the distinction does matter?

Max HaivenGUEST
I borrow this term derivative fascism from the German professor and artist and lecturer Hito Sterl, who presents it in a book several years ago, but doesn't quite develop the concept as far as I think it can be taken.

Max HaivenGUEST
The word derivative at first connotes something that is insufficiently original.

Max HaivenGUEST
Like if you speak about an artwork as being derivative, it means it's too much indebted or too imitative of another artwork.

Max HaivenGUEST
It's usually a kind of an art world slur to say that something is not good, essentially.
24 MINS LATER
45:12
What would an anti-fascist game look like and how do we start playing it? Maybe without the right arm?
The Player and the Played: From Gamed Capitalism to 21st-Century Fascism with Max Haiven (MIT Press, 2026)
21:07
21:24
21:31
21:38
47:14

Max HaivenGUEST
I borrow this term derivative fascism from the German professor and artist and lecturer Hito Sterl, who presents it in a book several years ago, but doesn't quite develop the concept as far as I think it can be taken.

Max HaivenGUEST
The word derivative at first connotes something that is insufficiently original.

Max HaivenGUEST
Like if you speak about an artwork as being derivative, it means it's too much indebted or too imitative of another artwork.

Max HaivenGUEST
It's usually a kind of art world slur to say that something is not good, essentially, and particularly not only not good, but not modern, that it's somehow not sufficiently contemporary.
25 MINS LATER

Rudolf IndersHOST
What would an anti-fascist game look like and how do we start playing it? Maybe without the right arm?
The Player and the Played: From Gamed Capitalism to 21st-Century Fascism with Max Haiven (MIT Press, 2026)
14:21
14:12
So what exactly do you mean by Plagrom and how does it differ from earlier forms of political violence?

Max HaivenGUEST
Yeah, this is, I think, one of the more controversial and emotionally difficult parts of my book, coining this phrase, playground, which, of course, is a portmanteau word that I've created, the play and pogrom.
32 MINS LATER
S
47:20speaker_0ADVERTISER
With that said, I think that there
The Player and the Played: From Gamed Capitalism to 21st-Century Fascism with Max Haiven (MIT Press, 2026)
20:58
21:15
21:22
21:29
46:08

Max HaivenGUEST
I borrow this term derivative fascism from the German professor and artist and lecturer Hito Sterl, who presents it in a book several years ago, but doesn't quite develop the concept as far as I think it can be taken.

Max HaivenGUEST
The word derivative at first connotes something that is insufficiently original.

Max HaivenGUEST
Like if you speak about an artwork as being derivative, it means it's too much indebted or too imitative of another artwork.

Max HaivenGUEST
It's usually a kind of an art world slur to say that something is not good, essentially.
25 MINS LATER

Rudolf IndersHOST
What would an anti-fascist game look like and how do we start playing it? Maybe without the right arm?
The Player and the Played: From Gamed Capitalism to 21st-Century Fascism with Max Haiven (MIT Press, 2026)
22:19
22:37
22:44
22:12
Could you explain what you mean by that and why the distinction does matter?

Max HaivenGUEST
Um, I borrow this term derivative fascism from the, uh, German professor and artist and lecturer, Hito Steyerl, uh, who presents it in a book several years ago, but doesn't quite develop the concept, uh, as far as I think it can be taken.

Max HaivenGUEST
The word derivative, um, at first connotes something that is insufficiently original.

Max HaivenGUEST
Like if you speak about an artwork as being derivative, it means it's too much indebted or too imitative of another artwork.
25 MINS LATER
47:31
What would an anti-fascist game look like and how do we start playing it maybe without the right arm?
