I think the Bears are about to get into this mix of one of these teams that people across the league notice, and notice just how of, much of a well-oiled machine they are.

I, I think you're right, man, and this has been the dream.

And you gave a nice list of the modern comps, and I, I think the one that probably resonates the most of the modern comps for me right now and the dreams is Kyle Shanahan and San Francisco go out there to win knowing that whatever quarterback plays, and obviously they're locked and loaded with Brock Purdy, but they made a Super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppolo, for God's sakes.

You know, n- knowing that whoever they have, it's gonna work.

I'll go back to the '90s and, um, and, and the Packers and Mike Holmgren because I felt like any quarterback that played was good enough to be better than the Bears, whether it was Tim Hasselbeck or it was Aaron Brooks, and eventually it's Matt Flynn.

Like, all these guys, whoever it was, was like, "Oh my God, how did they find another one? How did they find another one? How did they find another one?" And the truth is, they had Mike Holmgren, and eventually they had Mike McCarthy as an extension of it.

And you look at all the coaches under Holmgren there, right? And we know that Gruden was there, and we know that Mariucci was there and all that stuff.

Like, if they, if they do advance and they play Tampa, like, like, give, give us a kind of a, a theoretical preview of that one.

Yeah.

Um, well listen, I, I believe...

So what's, what does good data readiness look like? So, so number one for me, I, I really do think that the core o- of, um, the future of this people-based marketing world we wanna live in does start with a common view of identity, a common key that allows you to link different s- different, um, touchpoints with for me in- into a common, uh, view, meaning you don't want Matt and Matthew to be two different people in your database.

You also wanna be able to, as best you can, link my exposures in a digital world and a physical world.

You'd like to connect what I've bought from you if I've heard, you know, purchased from you in the past, right? So being able to have a world, a, a connected layer that actually helps you with that identity resolution is really key.

And by the way, some of that means you could in, y- you could bring that, quote-unquote, "in-house," meaning you, you typically, you're not gonna do that on your own.

Vendors like TransUnion are, I think, necessary partners, but we could give you data to help them do that.

Right.

companies.

And I say that to then say a lot of what is natural in that reality is...

A lot of the marketing science stuff is outsourced in different ways.

And when it's outsourced, then there's less internal understanding.

That's part of what you're highlighting.

Some of the outsourcing might be that this vendor gives me my reports and another vendor gives me my reports, and I don't have the data science capabilities to reconcile between them.

And so I present those results as kind of, quote, true, and they might not be wrong, but they're also not complete.

So with that in mind, as marketers start making decisions about their 2027 budgets, What needs to be in place from a data and identity and a process standpoint before they put even more money into AI?

What if the rug gets pulled out from under us? What if we invest in the wrong areas?

Yeah.

So listen, I think right now more than ever, and I know this will sound a little self-serving coming from a guy sitting at TransUnion, but I really do think the answer is you've got to figure out your customer intelligence and your data layer.

If we think about what really, let's call it the last 20, 25 years has been about, it's about figuring out how to apply consumer intelligence at more scale.

Right.

Like there's been research in customer market intelligence has been a thing for decades.

But at a time when the industry was dominated by mass media, where the extent of targeting was 18 to 34.

You know, this nebulous market mindshare idea that we were working in all the way to, you know, managing channel marketing and having data analysts all in the room with me trying to figure out where we're going to put things, which channel are we going to focus on? And now are we still using those same measurement tools in this AI world? How do we change that mindset?

And I don't find myself trusting the PFF system

anymore.

I also think that we shouldn't just...

Here's my thing about it.

It's one part.

of how we should look at how guys play.

It shouldn't be.

Peripherals,

Definitely more Big 12.

But this is part of the recalibration that's going on with Bears fans all over the town and everywhere, is that you have one of those teams now.

It was only a year ago, Lawrence, after the Ravens and the Bills played that crazy-ass Sunday night opener, or maybe it was a Thursday night, whatever it was, the season opener, 41 to 40.

Mm-hmm.

And we came in here, and I was like, "Th- that's the league that I wanna play in," and we've been waiting our whole lives.

Do we now have a team that could play in that kind of game? Because it's felt like a different league than the one the Bears have been in for decades, and now we have a team in that league.

You know, that's that's such a huge ask.

Yeah, I mean, he's gravy.

The guy that they really wanted and needed was Ben Brown.

Yep.

And it's really tough, especially because of the nature of what that injury is, and it's a little confusing.

And, you know, when we talk to Craig today, I'm going to make sure to ask really short questions.

and not put any words in his mouth because pointing a thumb like look I've got a good relationship with Craig every time I see Craig we mess around we laugh a little bit we've got some mutual like actual friends like whatever you know and and and and I think there's been lots of great moments in our conversations but I'll point a thumb on the questions and say that sometimes I get a little too wordy and I put and I put words in his mouth and he particularly like you know I ask him are you disappointed that kind of thing right I'm a I'm going to try not to do that.

You've done a lot here in the last 20

How

about the Brewers' everything? Yeah.

I don't know if anybody happened to read Mike Petrello wrote a thing on MLB.com the other day about statistically some things that make the Brewers unique and make them great.

And there's a map.

You can map out which way your offense is trying to hit the ball based on the contact point of your collective offense.

Every team in baseball is trying to pull the ball and hit it in the air, including the Cubs, who have maybe the most home runs.

I'm not sure they have the most runs scored.

Man,

The sports ghoul can't be ignored in this.

Derek Stevens does not think it's enough that he's single-handedly revitalizing downtown Las Vegas with the D and the Circa.

He now wants to reinvent and reclaim Radio Row.

This is like a Super Bowl Radio Row situation that he is making happen here at Circa to announce and celebrate, as Lawrence said, the Circa Million, the Circa Advisor, the Circa Grandissimo.

And we'll be talking to various people getting excited about the football contest today as we mix it in.

With baseball conversation and ornery Ben Johnson conversation.

And just like reunited and we're happy to be doing radio together conversation.

What matters from that development? And we know that when Ben got in here, he didn't think that the year that Caleb wasn't with him mattered at all.

soupy, okay.

Yeah, a little soupy in the air, and we'll see if it gets soupier.

Hang on, Soupy.

Soupy, hang on.

Ozzy Guillen is a very funny, naturally funny and quick individual.

We had Pat McGann here in studio the other day.

Lawrence, he said he had just had Ozzy on the pod, and I was fascinated with the idea of Ozzy hanging around with two stand-up comics on a podcast because I 100% believe he could hold his own in that area.

Hattie B's?

The White Sox had put themselves kind of maybe not as big of a hole as the Tigers did this year in the Central, but they had to win a ton down the stretch and had to win like six in a row in like four different stadiums to even force the blackout game.

Like, I've been asked a lot in recent weeks, including by our guy Ryan Porth in advance, I think, of some production, hey, when's the last time this series met this much? And my brain doesn't work like that for this series, and I'll tell you why.

I love it every time.

I'm that guy who, like, I've always leaned into the meatballism, the tribalism of it, and, like, told people, enjoy yourself.

Because there was a while, I mean, Groats, you remember, like, where this series was poo-pooed on the score.

Right.

Very loudly, like, oh, come on, that's not your rival.

They just were teammates with him, yet huge fans

We were just a couple

floors above.

You're right.

Last time I was in, I can't remember if we talked about this on the air or not.

Last time I was over there at Channel 5 and saw their new space, which is unbelievable.

NASA.

That's where the Jenny Jones show was filmed.

Yes, and especially when it comes to women of color, but women all over the spectrum, it's still a thing.

Whatever it takes.

Whatever it takes.

Let's go.

The Cubs.

Look, I'm not to your level yet, Speaks, of your proclamation.

In life, you mean? No, no, no.

I mean about the Cubs winning the World Series.

I

And that's something that we're going to explore on the show today is, is there a trade-off that's happening? Are you trading Velo for control? I

don't think you should make another start.

I don't think you should make another start for a team that's tied for a playoff spot, tied for a division.

I think the year has changed into what you were thinking it was going to be.

I'm 100% in agreement

Yeah, so I mean, I don't know if that's going to work, if they're going to develop that way for now, but that would be something if you could get something for nothing, obviously.

Hey, 23 hours ago, we talked to Shevin Sean, Shevin Sean Burke.

Yeah.

Will they ever recapture growth again?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't consider myself an expert on Nike.

Right.

But I would say broadly, I actually think you are emphasizing that brands will still elevate.

Sure.

So this person's likely to lease a BMW based upon their income, this, this, that, and then basically you score them.

great and listened to all that enjoyed that

but he lawrence we asked him about the 91 and 90 or the mid 90s indians The mid-90s Cleveland team.

And he said this bunch does remind him of that Cleveland team because they had sluggers.

They had scrappy guys.

They were aggressive.

The lineup top to bottom made you work.

This White Sox thing, man, they'll take every extra base.

They are earning the right for Chris Goetz to go out and get them whatever help they require as players who are doing what they're being asked to do on a daily basis.

They came off as flat-footed in that article as I perceived them to be in real life.

Yes, yes, yes.

And to that end, I think I still can respect their acumen.

Lawrence, it's their inability to admit they might have been wrong.

And to shuffle and to not stay flat-footed.

It's like, they know hoops, but then you make a guess and you're like, oh man, no, that doesn't work.

This is true.

How about me dancing Klezmer at the many Jewish weddings that I've been to through the years? As you're talking about the Persian weddings, I'm thinking of all the Jewish weddings.

I think I'm totally

done.

I didn't do the work, really.

I know it's another surprise, Grody, if you met me.

I didn't do the work to really get the knee back functional after the ACL.

And you're reminded of just how much work it actually takes.

It's a lot.

Went baseball, but it did feel good to take a couple swings.

I mean,

they pitch.

They pitch.

Hey, man.

They pitch.

They find new pitchers every year.

They got some new pitchers this year.

Wait,

I mean, I know you'll probably be talking about it with Lawrence today, but give us a little bit of a feel for what that game was like.

Yeah, man, I'm dying to talk about it with Lawrence and Tanny and Alex and the listeners and just kind of revel in it a little bit because it was a really crazy sporting experience, as you can imagine.

It was just beautiful.

You guys know that feeling of what it's like when it's a communal – event and everybody feels the terror for two and a half quarters you know and then feels the joy of the comeback together and and everybody ends up feeling the same thing that's what my brother kept turning to me and say like everybody's feeling the same thing and that meant the celebs it meant the employees it meant the that you know the season ticket holders and it i theoretically meant the people who bought their one-offs for 30 grand a pop or whatever but you know It was a very cool communal sports event, and there's a lot to get into from it.

Who shot it down? I thought I was reading that it was not happening.

I haven't seen that.

When the manager brings it up as a possibility or admits that it's a possibility, that means he wants it, doesn't it? It means he wants it and he thinks it's the right thing to do or he knows it's going to happen.

I think that was pretty telling that Venable actually is willing to talk about it.

You are appreciated by many, many people.

Matt Spiegel is one of the great baseball people, and not only in this town, but across the country.

Chris

Chris is the best part of the show.

First of all, thanks for having me.

I always enjoy being on with you, Lawrence,

What's the excitement level in Chicago?

Extremely, extremely high, but a lot of nerves here.

It has been a magical season.

Six comebacks in the last two minutes.

A coach who was a flat-out superstar, who has kind of recalibrated the conversation about how a quarterback was needed to save the Bears.

The coach is the guy who has flipped the culture and flipped the building.

And Caleb Williams has now come along with it, which has been awesome.

Weather forecast and how you see this one? Is it a one and a half point favorite for Chicago? Um, how do both of those factors play in?